SNP stance on pensions

[Mountaingoat12]

The SNP - in all of its past independence propositions - have been wildly optimistic, but with their latest stance on pensions they have moved to actually gaslighting their supporters. I just cannot comprehend it.

In 2014 the independence white paper stated that after independence, Indy Scotland would pay Scottish pensions. They seem to now be saying that following independence the rest of the UK (I.e. England, Wales and Northern Ireland) will be responsible for paying Scottish pensions, which is just not at all true. Never has been, never will be. I find it just unfathomable. Trying to actually gaslight the electorate???

So would you vote for the case put forward by the growth commission report?

I don't think it will be as clear cut though as the economic case being straightforwardly bad or good though. Like before we will all personally need to weigh up the evidence and expert opinions we have at the time and make that decision. If I am unconvinced by the economic case then I will not vote for independence. Politically and culturally I'm sold on it and so will proceed with hope that the financial situation will be positive!

And it's hardly as if we are living the dream in the UK financially is it? I've never felt it tougher and I'm well paid.

You didn't answer the question. Would you or would you not vote for independence based on the growth commission report on the economics of an independent Scotland?

@alicesfavouritepen

And it's hardly as if we are living the dream in the UK financially is it? I've never felt it tougher and I'm well paid.

And putting up more borders and incurring the huge costs of setting up a new country will make that so much better will it?

@Rainbowshit

You didn't answer the question. Would you or would you not vote for independence based on the growth commission report on the economics of an independent Scotland?

I didn't see your question. I don't think the report is as negative as you do tbh. I've read it (well the summary anyway) and I still believe that independence is the way forward. Even so, a referendum has not been announced, it's likely to be at least another year away and as I've said multiple times I will make my decision made based on the most up to date evidence at that time. Hopefully that's okay with you?

And putting up more borders and incurring the huge costs of setting up a new country will make that so much better will it?

Yes I believe it will. And I'm also not convinced, that in the grand scheme of things, set up costs will be unbearably huge.

@alicesfavouritepen

And putting up more borders and incurring the huge costs of setting up a new country will make that so much better will it?

Yes I believe it will. And I'm also not convinced, that in the grand scheme of things, set up costs will be unbearably huge.

So here's what your lot think:

sourcenews.scot/robin-mcalpine-this-is-how-much-it-will-really-cost-to-build-an-independent-scotland/

£25bn.

Now contrast that with the £200m budgeted in the independence white paper. I laughed when I read that. My company have IT projects bigger than £200m.

£25bn. Not that big in the grand scheme of things you say. 🤔

That's actually a really good article. Thanks for posting. It does a pretty good job of showing that you can get a lot for your £25 billion.

Obviously it's a huge sum but south of the border £37 billion got two years worth of NHS track and trace.

Seems pretty good value to me when considered in that context to be honest.

😂😂😂. Amazing.

And what do you have to say about the contrast between that and what was costed in the white paper that you voted for? 🤔

The white paper was written pre 2014. I did not have a crystal ball or a time machine that allowed me to to jump forward to 2018 to read one man's estimate for what he personally thinks an independent Scotland would cost.

Are you actually asking me to explain why the SG estimate and Robin McAlpine's estimates from four years apart don't tally? Cause if you are it's no wonder you're laughing.

What do you have to say, rainbowshit, about the UKGov stating that a vote for no in '14 was a vote to keep Scotland in the EU?
Or, that the leader of the UK Government stated that leaving the EU would bring an extra £350m to the NHS?

Yet, you're asking Alice to comment on a WordPress blogger vs the White Paper costings.

So.. any views on the lies of the UK Government?, which I'm guessing you voted to stay with.

No I'm asking you to assess whether you think the figure of £200m was in any way realistic.

How much faith does that give you in any future prospectus for independence?

Do you feel misled?

@StarryEyeSurprise

What do you have to say, rainbowshit, about the UKGov stating that a vote for no in '14 was a vote to keep Scotland in the EU? Or, that the leader of the UK Government stated that leaving the EU would bring an extra £350m to the NHS?

Yet, you're asking Alice to comment on a WordPress blogger vs the White Paper costings.

So.. any views on the lies of the UK Government?, which I'm guessing you voted to stay with.

Aaand right on cue here you are.

A vote for yes instantly meant leaving the EU.

I voted remain. As far as I'm concerned the only difference between the independence white palate and the £350m nonsense was that only one of this was written on the side of a bus.

*paper not palate

Could we focus on Scotland now, not the past and England?

@WouldBeGood

Could we focus on Scotland now, not the past and England?

Coming out of the EU and the s*itshow the UK Government made of it affects both my family living in England and in Scotland.

@Rainbowshit

No I'm asking you to assess whether you think the figure of £200m was in any way realistic.

How much faith does that give you in any future prospectus for independence?

Do you feel misled?

No I don't feel misled. Like I say I hadn't read that article detailing one man's estimate from 2018 back in 2014. I can't think why?

I'd be interested to see the context for the 200million figure. It's been many years since I've read it.

@WouldBeGood

Could we focus on Scotland now, not the past and England?

Why? They are linked are they not?

"No I don't feel misled. Like I say I hadn't read that article detailing one man's estimate from 2018 back in 2014. I can't think why?"

Not really the point was it.

Again. Do you think a figure of £200m seems a reasonable assumption for setting up an independent country?

£15bn. That’s how much Scotland gets in the Barnett formula every year. We would need to double income tax in an independent Scotland to just spend what we are now. Does that not resonate at all with you Alice? It’s just so blindingly simple. And that’s before higher rate taxpayers flee the country. Why it pisses me off so much is we’d have to move. We have a GBP mortgage and cannot pay it off in the worthless groats that we’d be earning in an Indy Scotland. Upheave my entire family just as some nationalists cannot comprehend basic economic theory. I’d have to ready my house if there was another vote planned just in case yes win and I’d have to get it on the market as soon as possible before the economy implodes. In the past 5 years my husband and I have paid over £450k in income tax and stamp duty. An independent Scotland aren’t getting their hands on a penny of our income tax, that’s for sure.

@Rainbowshit 🤣 I love this. Do you imagine in your head that you're Perry Mason when you type these posts? Your tone is fabulous. I haven't read the white paper for 8 years at least and you want me to explain what I thought 8 years ago with that one figure you've picked out with zero context?

@Mountaingoat12

£15bn. That’s how much Scotland gets in the Barnett formula every year. We would need to double income tax in an independent Scotland to just spend what we are now. Does that not resonate at all with you Alice? It’s just so blindingly simple. And that’s before higher rate taxpayers flee the country. Why it pisses me off so much is we’d have to move. We have a GBP mortgage and cannot pay it off in the worthless groats that we’d be earning in an Indy Scotland. Upheave my entire family just as some nationalists cannot comprehend basic economic theory. I’d have to ready my house if there was another vote planned just in case yes win and I’d have to get it on the market as soon as possible before the economy implodes. In the past 5 years my husband and I have paid over £450k in income tax and stamp duty. An independent Scotland aren’t getting their hands on a penny of our income tax, that’s for sure.

There are many who would dispute that and it's far from blindingly simple.

[quote alicesfavouritepen]@Rainbowshit 🤣 I love this. Do you imagine in your head that you're Perry Mason when you type these posts? Your tone is fabulous. I haven't read the white paper for 8 years at least and you want me to explain what I thought 8 years ago with that one figure you've picked out with zero context? [/quote]
Lol. You can't answer can you. It's not really a hard question. Unless the answer is uncomfortable?

It's not about discomfort. Discomfort is good. I am wrong often and have been wrong many times. I have been wrong on here and owned it. I can't put myself back 8 years and answer your question. It's impossible. Your insistence that I do so is strange and a tad hectoring/aggressive.

Do I believe that independence is better for Scotland? Yep. Will I review the economic case they make at the time of the referendum and use that to inform my vote? Of course.