Guilt Free Railing 12

[WouldBeGood]

The railing goes on

It just seems to me a continuation of the attitude they've held much of the way through, which is not to be that arsed about keeping people safe.

I think they are more concerned about their popularity than anything else

If anyone truly thinks any government gives a flying fuck about “keeping people safe” then they are sadly mistaken.

It’s about power and money

All politicians keep one eye on the polls (herself as much as anyone), but think it's consistent with Tory principles tbh, i.e. to expect more personal responsibility and allow people as much liberty as possible (small state, low taxes etc). It's also in step with previous COVID policies, like optional masks etc. Personally I prefer it to being micromanaged and patronised, not that I'm given a choice. Vaccine passports are typical of the controlling approach of the SG who overreach into all aspects of our lives, up to and including policing what we can discuss in the privacy of our own homes.

Giving people liberty works both ways though. I mean, women are not at liberty to claim child tax benefits for a third baby unless they can prove they were raped.

What a wonderful hoax they've played on people: convincing them that 'personal freedom' is better than being a citizen in a state that wants to protect them. Brilliant get out clause!

I think it's a balance, or a spectrum, between individual liberty and state protection tbh. The state should provide basic protections, but I do think the SG takes it too far such as with requiring certifications to enter businesses (especially as most of this 'protection' is based on wesk evidence and is piss poorly implemented...)

[quote runningpink]@Scottishskifun just found this

apple.news/ARxO5y9TdSxqGnLTl0VjPhA[/quote]
Fingers crossed it gets introduced before early Oct when we fly back in! We have been holding off booking them deliberately!
Then it will just be a LFT which in Europe the price is capped so its actually not too much at all!

I honestly don't see the issue with vaccine passports, provided they got their shit together in terms of medical exemptions.

I was reading a thread yesterday where someone from Germany was saying they must wear medical-grade masks and show passports to get into all manner of places. I don't know of any big protest about it (although that doesn't mean they didn't happen of course).

It just feels like more moaning in most cases, because people don't like or trust the current government. So many want to pretend that this is over, and it just isn't.

I'm not bothered about vaccine passports as said previously but was angry to read that they haven't sorted anything out yet for people who are medically exempt.

I do wonder what you mean by this isn't over though @blameitontheblackstar as it's now here to stay it's not going to magically disappear and is now endemic. So we can't live with legal restrictions forever it has to come down to personal assessment and risk sooner or later.
As for Germany it's dependent on the region and some have removed the majority of their restrictions others haven't. One insists on masks outside the majority don't, public transport yes it's ffp2 masks but they also provide them. They did always allow a certain number of family members into each others house for instance in most regions (friend is German who moved back 5 years ago).

The provision of personal medical information to be able to partake of everyday activities is a massive infringement of liberty and right to a private life

I just mean that the pandemic is ongoing so there are inevitably going to be changes to how we live in the short and medium terms. Living with it doesn't mean going back to 2019; it means getting as much as we can back while balancing safety and freedoms. But plenty of people just want to click their fingers and wish it all away.

Vaccine passports and lots of the other “mitigations” don’t work though. Apart from the moral aspects of creating this type of society

Plus they are impractical and not everyone’s can be checked, as the chairman of the SPFL has just pointed out. Can’t do 30-40,000 checks on way in to football

I can't say that I blame them for that @blameitontheblackstar

Certain aspects many people would accept if they are shown to actually be of benefit such as reducing risk in the NHS and care homes by regular testing.
But masks in schools which don't make a difference, or masks walking to the toilet in a pub nope, even in a supermarket (large lofty building usually with ventilation systems).
I do get proving vaccination status for travel I've done it for years for many countries.
We learned to live with many illnesses though without the need for legal restrictions, its personal responsibility.

I agree @Scottishskifun, COVID isn't going anywhere, so we either have to just accept it as we do flu every year (boosters vaccinations for the vulnerable etc.) or we need to keep mitigations in place forever. We're at that fork in the road now, things are as good as they're going to get, and we either choose a return to liberties as England appears to be, or we choose indefinite restrictions. If we are going to be expected to keep masks or vaccine passports (for instance) forever, then there absolutely needs to be good real-world evidence that they are effective in bringing numbers down given the way people behave etc. (which probably means properly controlled trials to avoid confounding with other mitigations) and secondly, that this benefit is definitely worth it considering the downsides. If we're going to impede children's education indefinitely, then this needs to be properly considered, with a strong evidence base behind it, and right now there just isn't.

I think that's one of my biggest objections to all of this (mandated masks, vaccine passports etc.) - the lack of any strong evidence that it will even have the desired effect! It kind of feels like a bit of theatre to look like we're 'doing something' - but scratch beneath the surface and the logic just doesn't add up.

I don't really think it's fair to claim they're "not that arsed about keeping people safe" insert obligatory denunciation of current Tory government and all it stands for here when they have just spent gazillion £££££ helping scientists develop and distribute an immensely successful vaccine in record time. It's probably fair, given that, that they truly aren't that arsed with tinkering round the edges of that, doing something that may or may not have any noticeable effect on case numbers (even less on hospitalisations etc given the types of events targeted) but will have a huge effect and cost to those businesses that have just started recovering from 18 months of effective closure. As well as going against pretty much their entire political philosophy and pissing off a lot of their voters (many of whom may be the businesses being shafted).

The SG doesn't have that decision to make, really. They may as well do the tinkering which makes them seem oh so cautious and careful, but sod the fallout, as they know they don't have to, ultimately, foot the bill. And it won't affect their polls as they know that the SNP are seen as the only major party committed to an Indyref. So somewhere approaching half the population in favour of that will vote for them regardless, even while holding their noses over x, y, Z policy. They have us over a barrel. I swear NS could punch David Attenborough in the face on live TV and still get voted in.

There are definitely more railers out there.

Where we live appears to be VERY law abiding in terms of masks, you go into the local supermarket and you will not see one person without a mask or lanyard. Or visor.

DD and I took a trip to another part of Glasgow on Friday to do some shopping, there were noticeably fewer people with masks on, lots of people wandering round without anything at all and nobody seemed to give two hoots.

Maybe many of us are so desperate to get away from the tories they'll vote for her, as theres no real opposition

@WouldBeGood

Plus they are impractical and not everyone’s can be checked, as the chairman of the SPFL has just pointed out. Can’t do 30-40,000 checks on way in to football

I just think that sounds like a reason to devise a better system, not an argument against doing something in the first place.

Honestly, looking objectively at what the parties are at this point in time, I'd rather have the Tories than the SNP. They have consistently been the ones defending women's rights in this whole trans 'debate' (or lack thereof), and they are the party most on the side of defending individual liberties as we come out of the pandemic. Two things that are way more important to me than any history to do with poll tax or whatever from the 80s.

I wouldn't.

There has to be a benefit of the system though rather than implementing a system.
If it was a case that people double vaccinated could not contract covid then to me it makes more sense to introduce vaccination passports.
But that's not the aim of them at all and won't make a difference in that regard they are used as a big stick to get people to get vaccinations.

I still prefer using them then going backwards to lockdown but it's a choice between severe personal freedom and giving up medical information. I suppose I'm not too bothered by the later as I do it regularly due to allergies and now long covid.

I also don't get the argument of voting for NS because of historical aspects. I vote depending on the track record for the last few years I honestly can't say that the SNP have done a good job up here just look at drugs deaths, health or education. The tories have the boys club aspect some policies I definitely don't agree with but I can't fault them on trying to prevent mass redundancy or piling money into vaccination research and schemes, long covid clinics etc. I still usually prefer policies put forward by labour or lib dems so tend to vote that way.

@Y0uCann0tBeSer10us they're only better on the trans issue, not overall I don't think.

The SNP have lost my vote and my membership over their handling of it, so I'm quite politically homeless. Think NS has severely lost her way.

I’d like a party with a truly progressive socialist agenda. No gender stuff. No constitutional wittering.

I also consider myself politically homeless @BlameItOnTheBlackStar. I'd say I was more of a pragmatist and a political centrist and Lib Dems used to be my go to, but then they got really confused about what a woman is, and decided to focus more on the fluffy identity stuff than the policies that matter (to me anyway) so I don't take them that seriously any more. I'm the ultimate floating voter I suppose, and go with who sounds best and most credible at the time. This pretty much rules out the SNP (even if they weren't the party of independence) because they have a truly dismal record of corruption, incompetence and radical ideology. Everything they touch turns to shit, and I can't think of anything they've actually implemented well which has made a (positive) difference to people's lives.