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Welcome to Scotsnet - discuss all aspects of life in Scotland, including relocating, schools and local areas.

Guilt Free Railing 12

999 replies

WouldBeGood · 01/09/2021 15:28

The railing goes on

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mapleleavesreturn · 01/09/2021 18:25

It does seem all a bit fiddling about the edges - token attempt to encourage adults before rolling out to children I expect.

listentomydeclaration · 01/09/2021 18:34

placemarking

Y0uCann0tBeSer10us · 01/09/2021 18:35

I agree with you entirely @WouldBeGood, the principle that the state has no right to interfere with our right to bodily autonomy is far too important to give up. I'll make the usual disclaimer that my children are fully vaccinated but we still decided on a jag by jag basis whether it was worth it for our childen. We actually chose an extended schedule because we felt it was best for them, which conflicts with the official schedule which is more convenient for the medics. I find it horrifying that anyone, but particularly children, could be barred from events if they don't get a vaccine which is not only not necessary (as COVID generally isn't a significant threat) but could very well be harmful (hence the extended deliberations of the JCVI). All for a vaccine that actually has been proven not to stop spread anyway.

No doubt it will be argued that this is an emergency situation, but we've already seen that the SG were prepared to misuse emergency powers to relieve general pressure on the NHS and they'd easily do it again if these principles are allowed to be eroded. If the precedent is set, how long before flu jags are compulsory every winter to protect the NHS and 'save lives'?

Scottishskifun · 01/09/2021 18:43

They wouldn't make flu jabs compulsory they don't get enough supply as it is to cover everyone!

I wouldn't agree with barring of under 18s. Many countries have already implemented this to a much higher level of restaurants, cinemas etc
I think restaurants and cafes is overkill but I do attend the rugby, if the choice is no rugby attendance for anyone this season or vaccination passports being required I will go for vaccination passports every day so I can get some normality back!

sartorius · 01/09/2021 18:54

I am secretly delighted to see that football has been hit by this.
Scottish news just said uptake amongst the players in Scotland is low

WouldBeGood · 01/09/2021 18:54

They might make contraception injections mandatory.

For our own good.

Slippery slope

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Scottishskifun · 01/09/2021 18:56

@WouldBeGood

They might make contraception injections mandatory.

For our own good.

Slippery slope

Again not going to happen they have a age deficit and actually need to increase birth rate not decrease it.

We are never going to become China!

WouldBeGood · 01/09/2021 19:01

But that’s just because you approve of this particular choice.

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Y0uCann0tBeSer10us · 01/09/2021 19:01

@Scottishskifun I think the danger is the potential for mission creep. If you accept the principle, then maybe it starts with mass events and over 18s, but when that doesn't work (and it won't - the vaccines don't stop spread), then it's all 'optional' venues like restaurants, then maybe it's everyone eligible for the vaccine (you know, since it's 'safe') and before you know it you're barred from most of society if you refuse a COVID vaccine. I don't trust the SG to keep to any limits they propose now because their word is worth nothing. A month ago they were adamant that vaccine passports were the wrong way to go because England was floating the idea Also let's not forget that these are new vaccines with no long term safety profile, and in the case of the mRNA ones no similar vaccines to draw experience from. The risk/benefit for teenagers and young adults not at risk from COVID isn't massively clear. If I was a healthy 18 year old I'm not sure I'd take it and I don't think they should be punished for that decision, whatever it is. (As a 40 something the risk benefit was much clearer and I personally did choose to be vaccinated)

WouldBeGood · 01/09/2021 19:02

Compulsory routine vaccination of kids?

Compulsory chemo; it’s for your own good.

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WouldBeGood · 01/09/2021 19:04

I never thought in a million years I’d not be allowed into the Barrowlands without a certificate of vaccination

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mapleleavesreturn · 01/09/2021 19:10

If you look at how you feel not wearing a mask, if exempt or struggle with them, vaccine passports will introduce the same issue.

Meanwhile, did anyone see this gem? Shocking and not at all unexpected:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-58391579

Scottishskifun · 01/09/2021 19:12

@WouldBeGood

Compulsory routine vaccination of kids?

Compulsory chemo; it’s for your own good.

I do think children should have all there immunisations yes, measles is a horrible disease for instance which has been on the rise because of misinformation of a debunked doctor! Chemotherapy saves lives for many but again it can be hard enough getting it agreed if a certain level of cancer.

@Y0uCann0tBeSer10us I don't believe it should be for the under 18s no and do think there will be an outcry if that was the case. But there is a lot of years of research behind vaccine types it's the spike adjustment whihh changes for them.
If I was 18 I would want to do anything to go travelling or on holiday which includes vaccinations.
I don't believe they should be forced for education purposes or family life elements of going for a meal etc.

I also don't trust the SG to keep their word but they also won't do hugely unpopular things (hence they float ideas first then deny them) because they want independence and know if they make big unpopular decisions it also loses them independence votes!

mapleleavesreturn · 01/09/2021 19:13

'This is a higher gap than our general mortality rate' - covid has exacerbated existing inequalities in everything: death, education, work, access to mental health care, dentistry etc. I'm sure this pattern is replicated in every single statistic.

Covid is a crisis hitting the most deprived communities much harder than anywhere else.

Y0uCann0tBeSer10us · 01/09/2021 19:26

That comes as no surprise @mapleleavesreturn - our whole response (lock downs/school closures) has essentially protected the middle 'laptop' classes from harm at the expense of the poor who had to work throughout, often in public facing roles. Families like ours will have bought computers for home-schooled children and been able to provide a quiet place to study and a garden for outside play, but less well off families won't have been able to. We can pay for private dental check ups if needed, but it all requires money. It's actually quite shocking how lockdowns have become the default position of the self-styled progressives given how much they disadvantage those already worse off in society.

OnceUponAWhine · 01/09/2021 19:27

I asked about this last week- re the flu vaccine, over 12s can give their own consent now, only primary school age need parents to sign permission for the vaccination days at school. So your over 12 will come home from school having received a flu vaccine whether you’re ok with that or not🤷‍♀️

Perfect model for ‘insert name of vaccine here’ already in place, with the assumption that the over 12s can make an informed decision without talking to their parent/guardian.
Add a layer of, ‘well you won’t be able to go into that concert/party/event without proof you’ve had it’ and a dash of ‘you’ll kill my granny if you don’t’ from one of their peers, what teenager would refuse it?

KatySun · 01/09/2021 19:33

I don’t agree with compulsory vaccination at all, because of the principle of informed consent and the autonomy of the patient. Of course there are vaccine requirements when you travel to certain countries, so it is possible to argue that it is similar in terms of travel or entry to various places within the country, but does the end really justify the means, if the vast majority of people can be persuaded rather than coerced into uptake?

mapleleavesreturn · 01/09/2021 19:40

And still no plan in evidence to fix the larger impact to the deprived areas hit hardest, no real media discussion of this unfair impact of covid.

Do we need anymore evidence? We all knew this would happen.

I saw Scottish Labour posting that over 2000 kids waiting +1 year for mental health treatment. Atrocious.

WouldBeGood · 01/09/2021 19:41

Vaccine passports will further increase the divide

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mapleleavesreturn · 01/09/2021 19:42

You'll end up with the clubs in less lovely areas not checking 'ID' just like the old days. It'll create a 2 tier club system.

WouldBeGood · 01/09/2021 19:46

It’s not just clubs either. Any mass gathering.

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WouldBeGood · 01/09/2021 19:47

I don’t want Nicola to decide what medical interventions i or my family must get to be socially acceptable

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mapleleavesreturn · 01/09/2021 19:48

The most barf worthy story we heard @Y0uCann0tBeSer10us was progressive left leaning friends (not based in the UK) who formed a bubble with two other families and hired their own teacher.

Surprisingly they were in no rush to get the kids back to school.

Y0uCann0tBeSer10us · 01/09/2021 19:48

@WouldBeGood

I don’t want Nicola to decide what medical interventions i or my family must get to be socially acceptable
Especially given her somewhat tenuous grasp of biology...
WouldBeGood · 01/09/2021 19:49

@mapleleavesreturn 🤢

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