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Scotsnet

Welcome to Scotsnet - discuss all aspects of life in Scotland, including relocating, schools and local areas.

Guilt Free Railing 12

999 replies

WouldBeGood · 01/09/2021 15:28

The railing goes on

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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WouldBeGood · 08/09/2021 09:16

Not at all @rookiemere that’s a proper rail. I’m really really hoping the strength of feeling against lockdown will stop them

OP posts:
Lockdownbear · 08/09/2021 09:17

I heard that stupid advert the other day. Really it's awful. I must say I thought Janey was funny the first time I heard her really the novelty wore off after that.

I really wish Goverments were more open. About a year ago I was given the theory that BJ was allowing a controlled amount of covid spread to build natural resistance. As a Plan B incase the vaccines failed, as all companies were working really on the same vaccine.

Scotland spent so long pursuing zero covid and at no point considered that the vaccines might not work.

It seems the vaccines are only good for 6mths. We aren't hearing how the brave people who were vaccinated as part of the trials are doing. Are their vaccines wearing off too?

tiredoftiers · 08/09/2021 09:23

@rookiemere

I'd like to rail about the media mentioning an October firebreak. WTF is a firebreak exactly- is it a lockdown and if it's not, how exactly will it reduce numbers? Feels like Autumn 2020 all over again, only worse as testing every 5 minutes and vaccines not our salvation any more.
Yip but this time there are vaccines, so where do we go next?

It feels very unsettling. We've never had hard figures before everyone is getting tested so often, I would love to know how many of the positive covid admissions are directly as a result of covid.
How long after having covid can you continue to test positive for, I'm assuming its at least 90 days as that's how long you need to wait after a previous positive?

With the usual onslaught of autumn viruses circulating, you might well have a cold but that vague tiredness and headache for 2 days 6 weeks ago was your covid infection. And the positive test is for the covid 6 weeks ago not for the snotters and cough you currently have.

Lockdownbear · 08/09/2021 09:27

@tiredoftiers that has crossed my mind too that people could be testing positive but have had covid weeks ago. And no longer be infectious.

Are other countries not considering dropping community testing?

How long before only people who are ill enough for hospital get tested.

These millions of tests must be costing a fortune.

BroccoliFloret · 08/09/2021 09:35

@WouldBeGood

I’m good news, canceljaneygodley is trending on Twitter. 🤣

I don’t generally approve of cancel culture, but that ad merits it

Having seen some of her tweets which have been highlighted I'm not surprised. She's a hideous human being who used a hugely offensive term about disabled people and referred to someone who disagreed with her as a "Chernobyl burns victim".

She's about as funny as being locked in a lift with Nicola Sturgeon. Hideous woman - the female equivalent of the equally vile Frankie Boyle. Both darlings of the independence movement. Godley won't be cancelled though, or dropped from SNP messaging or campaigns because none of them ever are.

ssd · 08/09/2021 09:39

Yes and somebody out there us making a packet from them

Y0uCann0tBeSer10us · 08/09/2021 09:58

"I really wish Goverments were more open. About a year ago I was given the theory that BJ was allowing a controlled amount of covid spread to build natural resistance. As a Plan B incase the vaccines failed, as all companies were working really on the same vaccine.

Scotland spent so long pursuing zero covid and at no point considered that the vaccines might not work."

This is really interesting, and regardless of intention the net effect seems to be that England has better community immunity (in that their previous summer spike never took off the way ours did - ours exceeded the January spike by some distance. We'll see what happens to England in the next few weeks, but I doubt there'll be record levels of infection). In fact, very early on I'm sure Patrick Vallance said in a press conference that they needed low risk people to get it for this reason. It's a shame it all got massively politicised soon afterwards, herd immunity became a dirty word rather than a scientific concept, and genuine scientific debate about the best way forward got shut down in favour of 'clear messaging' about sticking to lockdowns etc.

That second point in the quote is the key one for me - we never had a plan B and had unrealistic expectations about vaccines. For me, it highlights that our 'advisors' didn't quite have the right specialisations and/or we didn't have the breadth of advice that you need in an emergency like this. We seemed to be social sciences/non-infectious disease epidemiologist heavy, with no-one really who understood how coronavirus virus spread works or even the limitations of vaccines (see endless talk of 'elimination strategy' and 'suppressing like measles'). And so we ended up with courses of actions that seemed reasonable on the surface but were ultimately unrealistic, and possibly even counter productive. One more instance where I'm really struggling to understand how a separate 'scottish' approach, rather than using the greater depth of expertise across the UK, has worked for us in any way.

Lockdownbear · 08/09/2021 10:39

Yip I definitely don't see what advantage Scotland has had following a separate approach.
It's like if the vaccine was the only option. I sort of know it's only a matter of time before we all come into contact with covid. I'm just fingers crossed that we don't have too hard a time of it.

rookiemere · 08/09/2021 10:43

The separate approach is just political posturing and I bet has cost a fortune in separate stats, medical advisers etc etc.

Even now on the main threads people are bemoaning the lack of masks in England, but when it's pointed out that they don't seem to be helping in Scotland, the answer is it would be higher without them Hmm.

mapleleavesreturn · 08/09/2021 10:46

Higher without them based on pure conjecture. Whereas you can measure the reduction in speech intelligibility they cause and the number of kids with speech problems rising.

Y0uCann0tBeSer10us · 08/09/2021 11:01

I never cease to be amazed at the way non-pharmaceutical interventions (masks, screens, isolating for 10 days etc.) are just accepted without question. Indeed any suggestion that we should actually do properly controlled trials to see if they work let alone whether it's worth it, before rolling them out universally (with the well-documented downsides to, say, child development) is decried as unethical/reckless/bound to lead to thousands of deaths etc.

Evidence that perhaps they don't work that well (like Scotland having the highest infection rates in the UK by some distance despite dealing with the same variants and having mandated masks) is twisted or dismissed as described above. Instead, since we know masks have downsides, we should be asking what evidence there is that they work. At best they are doing very little to control spread, at worst they may even encourage behaviours that make spread worse (such as leaning in because hearing is difficult, or promoting a false sense of security). The fact is, we just don't know unless someone does an RCT on it using subsets of the same population (so accounting for population differences like possible lower natural immunity in Scotland). Of course, if the aim is just to look like you're doing something while secretly trying to allow a controlled spread, this muddies the waters a bit.

Lockdownbear · 08/09/2021 11:07

Here's another one, we know vit D is lacking in Scotland, we also know covid really affects people low in vit D.

Why aren't they pushing the advice to take vit D or walks in the sun while it's there?

sartorius · 08/09/2021 11:18

@Y0uCann0tBeSer10us yes to proper trials.
2 secondary schools in same town.
Try 1 without masks for a month and see the comparison in cases🤷🏼‍♀️

BlameItOnTheBlackStar · 08/09/2021 11:25

Imagine the uproar if that happened!

ElephantOfRisk · 08/09/2021 11:26

If I had to assume without evidence, I would say that we are pretty sure that masks have little if any effectiveness especially with Delta and especially if they are not worn properly, so, i'd go as far to say that wearing a mask does encourage people to distance less (feel protected by mask) than they might if there was no mask and they wanted to avoid catching it. My view is that masks don't help and actually might be making it worse. Distancing from people slightly to avoid catching any virus makes sense. I'd quite happily chat to someone ill from across the desk but I wouldn't go and sit immediately beside them and view their screen while talking if I didn't want to catch it.

Lockdownbear · 08/09/2021 11:28

The trouble with trying to do that I'd you'd have people up in arms at both schools. This is ridiculous my wee Bobby needs to wear a mask all day and his cousin Jack doesn't.
This is ridiculous experimenting on my wee Jeanie, using the weans as gunie pigs.

Seriously surely they can experiment in a lab to see what difference masks actually make, esp poorly fitted cloth ones. And what the risk is to the same masks being reworn.

Remember that point when SG tried to float the idea of higher rated disposalable masks and decided against the idea because people would reuse them and the cost to NHS / schools.

sartorius · 08/09/2021 11:37

I guess we will get real world days from England very soon.
I think their school kids are not wearing masks?

sartorius · 08/09/2021 11:38

*data

BlameItOnTheBlackStar · 08/09/2021 11:38

It's also hugely unscientific and would tell you almost nothing.

There's a whole ton of evidence that masks reduce transmission, not sure why we are still quibbling over it. Of course kids not wearing them correctly doesn't help, but that's a fault with children Grin

WouldBeGood · 08/09/2021 11:41

There has been a study in India (I think) which shows that cloth masks don’t work but proper surgical ones properly worn are better.

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WouldBeGood · 08/09/2021 11:42

It’s not unscientific. Alistair Munro a paediatrician on Twitter was calling for exactly that type of study to be done.

I suppose we have the de facto study of Scotland/England and the rates soaring in mask wearing Scotland

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Scottishskifun · 08/09/2021 11:44

@blameitontheblackstar where for delta variant???
The studies I have seen that show reduced risk for delta are an American study which said they helped reduce transmission WITH 2 metre distancing and a Welsh study on cars and ventilation that they reduced transmission WITH the windows open and natural ventilation.......
The other studies show brief face to face conversations it reduces transmission but as far as I'm aware there isn't a study which shows sat in a poorly ventilated environment for several hours in close proximity wearing a mask reduced transmission...... Please if you have one I'm genuinely interested in reading it!

Lockdownbear · 08/09/2021 11:44

I'm sure watching England is part of the plan. Give them 2 weeks to get back into school see what happens with numbers and then decide to keep or ditch the masks.

BlameItOnTheBlackStar · 08/09/2021 11:47

@WouldBeGood

It’s not unscientific. Alistair Munro a paediatrician on Twitter was calling for exactly that type of study to be done.

I suppose we have the de facto study of Scotland/England and the rates soaring in mask wearing Scotland

But it can't be controlled for any other factors. Picking two random schools is not going to prove anything sound. Not to mention that it's unethical to experiment on children without them being able to opt out (without losing out on some of their education).
BlameItOnTheBlackStar · 08/09/2021 11:49

@Lockdownbear

I'm sure watching England is part of the plan. Give them 2 weeks to get back into school see what happens with numbers and then decide to keep or ditch the masks.
Probably!
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