They didn’t learn from the named persons fiasco

[Mango1982]

twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1425875063149051906?s=20

🤷‍♀️😳

To think teachers maybe changing your child’s name covertly and keeping the name change a secret from parents

They didn’t learn form the named Persons over reach

Teachers are not being guided to keep secrets from parents. In fact, we undergo child protection training during the first in service after the holidays.
During this training, we are explicitly reminded that we cannot tell a child that we will keep a secret to ourselves. If, for example, a child informs a teacher that they are being sexually abused by a family member, that is a situation where the member would not be informed immediately.
There has been a lot of talk about this on teacher groups - that it is utter nonsense and yet parents are believing that the government is advising teachers to allow or encourage 4 years olds to change their gender and to keep this a secret from parents.
Re the lowering of consent - I'd read it as the lowering of consent for sexual intercourse.

www.gov.scot/publications/supporting-transgender-young-people-schools-guidance-scottish-schools/pages/2/

In terms of parents not being informed, this initial passage refers only for it being recommended to gain consent from parents

'Recognising the rights of all parents and carers, it is recommended that consent is obtained from all of those with parental responsibilities for those young people under 16. '

However, it is later stated that-

'• If the young person has not told their family, school staff may want to discuss the most likely reaction with the young person. This will allow the teacher and the young person to discuss whether sharing information is in the young person’s best interests, and if so, what information to share and with whom.
• Offer to arrange a meeting with parents or carers; agree this with the young person in advance of the meeting and mutually agree key information to be shared in the
discussion and by whom.'

Which gives the impression that parents may well not be advised of social transitioning.

There is also a parent who posts on here whose child was socially transitioned by their School, without the parents knowledge and was subsequently reported to SS by the School for not affirming their child.

Additionally, the document above makes the distinction between a child protection concern and a disclosure about a child being transgender, which is not (in and of itself) a child protection concern and does not then follow the same procedures.

It's genuinely concerning that teachers on a teachers forum appear not to have read the document and also appear to be dismissing parent's concerns as 'nonsense'.

Part of growing up is experimenting, pushing boundaries and figuring out who you are.
The obsession with labelling young people while they are on this journey is extremely troubling.
The very people we should be protecting are at the mercy of inadequate politicians ( many of whom aren’t parents) and activists with agendas of their own.

Far too much power is being taken by the Scottish Govt and placed in the hands of teachers who are not trained to deal with these issues.
Arguably, they have enough to be getting in with actually teaching.
It’s absolutely horrifying what’s happening in Scotland at the moment.

I've been following a lot of the recent news about how the whole trans activism is escalating, but I am utterly shocked by this as had no idea what was happening in Scotland. This is utter madness, surely the more people find out about this the more pushback there will be?

@BirdsRoundandRound it's a consequence of the chilling effect. The screams of 'transphobe!', the doxxing, deplatforming and no debate have meant that people raising concerns have been silenced. Some of the stuff which is going on is so outlandish (rape survivors being denied single sex spaces for example) that most of the public simply don't believe that it's true and think it's women being hysterical. Any attempt by women to raise issues about the huge rise of girls transitioning, about social contagion in schools, issues around safeguarding, the return of the 'urinary leash' and about medical transitioning being pushed instead of 'watchful waiting' is handwaved aside as a 'transphobic dogwhistle'. There's more and more sunlight on the issue though.

Starry eyed surprise -I was referring to transitioning age of consent but also think there is a hidden agenda within certain groups to get age of consent lowered for sexual reasons . The Scottish government will no doubt lap that up too, anything rather than face the grim reality of what they aren’t addressing such as economy, education and drugs .

@annabelindajane sometimes it's not a hidden agenda at all. The PIE scandal waa absolutely shocking - paedophilia in plain sight, sanctioned by people in power.

This is what I'm talking about. The difference between what's being reported and the reality of the proposed procedure in schools.

@StarryEyeSurprise have you read the full document in full? I've quoted several bits from the document in my post above which are relevant, in particular -

This will allow the teacher and the young person to discuss whether sharing information is in the young person’s best interests, and if so, what information to share and with whom.

The screenshot you have posted has been shared extensively but is not often followed up by a examination of the full document.

As I mentioned in my previous post, there is a poster who commented earlier in this thread that her child was socially transitioned at School without their parent's knowledge. So it's not 'nonsense' or hysteria, it's currently happening.

' Schools have a welfare responsibility towards young people, and may have to support the
young person if decisions need to be made about a young person's wellbeing. Teachers
should always provide impartial information and guidance which prioritises a young person's
wellbeing.
It is important to recognise the contribution parents/carers can make, and to find solutions by
working collaboratively with young people.
Good practice
• If the young person has not told their family, school staff may want to discuss the most
likely reaction with the young person. This will allow the teacher and the young person
to discuss whether sharing information is in the young person’s best interests, and if
so, what information to share and with whom.
• Offer to arrange a meeting with parents or carers; agree this with the young person in
advance of the meeting and mutually agree key information to be shared in the
discussion and by whom.
• Listen to the concerns of parents and carers without judging them; respond to concerns
calmly; and correct any misconceptions.
• The Getting it right for every child approach will keep the young person and parents at
the centre of any consideration of wellbeing; and, the identification and agreement of
responses and support. Parents and carers may need time to come to terms with what
their child has told them. Teachers can help by letting them know about sources of
information and support (see below).
If a teacher is concerned about the home environment or the safety of a young person, they
should follow the school's child protection policy and procedures for recording and/or acting
on such concerns.'

Yes - I am a teacher.

This puts your paragraph in context - what you are referring to when a young person, who hasn't hasn't came out to their parents, asks for support.

the next paragraph on the posters own screenshot says that a pupil and/or a parent or caregiver can request that their school record is changed and basically that it's preferable that parents are involved but doesn't say they have to be. Just cherry picking, again...

Read it again. Under 16s - parental consent required.

This is similar to the sex education outcry. UfT and other similar factions were reporting made up lies re what is taught in primary schools. This is despite the fact that Education Scotland actually published all the lessons online - RHSP.

To formally change their school record - yes.

Socially transitioning in school - no parental consent or knowledge required.

[quote rogdmum]“ I've seen a parent who has had this happen (i.e School socially transitioning the child without the parent's consent) on here who said they were threatened with SS unless they were prepared to 'validate' their child. It sounds like she's been put in a horrible position for raising perfectly legitimate concerns.”

WaitWhat That might have been me and yes the school actually did report us to social services. The whole experience has been horrific and has done real damage to our daughter and the rest of the family. Social services agreed with the expert clinical advice that affirming was not appropriate for her and must stop and the school has ignored this.

The school supported her social transition behind our backs and then when we found out, told us we had no say, all on the back of the then LGBTYS guidance. The new guidance is just a beefed up version of the old guidance with the caveat right at the start that schools and LAs should take legal advice as appropriate (I’m guessing because to affirm without parental consent leaves a school wide open to litigation). LGBTYS have an awful lot to answer for.

Re the Alex Massie article, MBM have now put up an analysis of the statistics used in the ScotGov guidance. These are the info graphics used by LGBTYS, expect in that version, the suicide stats have a picture of a noose next to them:

murrayblackburnmackenzie.org/2021/08/19/use-of-statistics-in-the-scottish-government-publication-supporting-transgender-pupils-in-schools/[/quote]
From earlier in the this thread.

@StarryEyeSurprise

Read it again. Under 16s - parental consent required.

Sorry? I don't need to read it again. I've read the document.

Does the poster whose child transitioned without their knowledge or consent have a thread about this? I'd be interested to understand more about this situation.

It's also an interesting way of phrasing it - that the 'school transitioned the child.'

I struggle to see how that could have happened in that way. How does a school transition a child?

The poster has spoken on various different threads but hasn't done one specifically herself as far as I know.

The School socially transitions the child by using the child's preferred name and pronouns and refers to them as the gender of their choosing. I believe they may also refer them to other outside support and counselling services. In the post from rogdmum I have quoted above - 'Social services agreed with the expert clinical advice that affirming was not appropriate for her and must stop and the school has ignored this.'

So they support the child in their transition then? That's a bit different to a school transitioning a child.

Would we rather their teachers did not respect their wishes?

From what the poster I have quoted has said previously and from other things I've read, there can be a few issues in socially transitioning a child at school, particularly without their parents knowledge and consent.

There's been a steep rise in ROGD (Rapid Onset Gender Disphoria) where the child has never shown any signs whatsoever of questioning their gender previously and is what I believe rogdmum's user name refers to. The advice from medical professionals in this case is being ignored by the School.

There has been a massive rise particularly in girls with with ASD which may have less with truly questioning gender and more seeing things in a very defined way - 'I don't like pink- I must be a girl then as girls like pink'. Several posters in the past have described this experiences with their children. Again socially transitioning may not be the best option for those children.

Affirming at school but not at home (one name at school and one name at home) has to be confusing for the child surely?

The policy document links to various LGBT organisations who push for medical affirmation and suggests the School advises these as recommendations for the child.

And as an aside - the SG states several statistics in the document linked regarding suicide in transgender children which are untrue - they have admitted this themselves. They are used for 'illustrative purposes'. So the policies being used in Schools are incorrect and perpetuating a suicide myth which is harmful to children.

Oh and there's the social contagion aspect too. Teenagers are reporting that to admit to being 'cisgender' is socially unacceptable. Where you would expect a small number of children in a classroom to be questioning their gender, there are now multiple children in the same class changing their gender.

There should be research going on to explore why this is and why there's such a massive rise in girls particularly changing gender. But there's not.

@Waitwhat23

To formally change their school record - yes.

Socially transitioning in school - no parental consent or knowledge required.

'Socially transitioning?' Is that in the document?

@Waitwhat23

Oh and there's the social contagion aspect too. Teenagers are reporting that to admit to being 'cisgender' is socially unacceptable. Where you would expect a small number of children in a classroom to be questioning their gender, there are now multiple children in the same class changing their gender.

There should be research going on to explore why this is and why there's such a massive rise in girls particularly changing gender. But there's not.

What's your evidence - do you work in a school?