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Scotsnet

Welcome to Scotsnet - discuss all aspects of life in Scotland, including relocating, schools and local areas.

They didn’t learn from the named persons fiasco

335 replies

Mango1982 · 17/08/2021 17:07

twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1425875063149051906?s=20

🤷‍♀️😳

To think teachers maybe changing your child’s name covertly and keeping the name change a secret from parents

They didn’t learn form the named Persons over reach

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
Waitwhat23 · 21/08/2021 13:41

@rogdmum yes, it was your situation I was thinking of - that's bloody awful what the School are doing. I've written to MSP and Councilors to raise it as well.

Mango1982 · 21/08/2021 16:37

Do you think the Actual plan to run Scotland down so she can blame English people

OP posts:
ElephantOfRisk · 21/08/2021 17:27

@Mango1982

Do you think the Actual plan to run Scotland down so she can blame English people
No, I think it's just sheer incompetence, they'll still try to blame it on English people though.
WouldBeGood · 22/08/2021 10:44

Have you seen the latest? Reports that police were called to the Doctors Bar in Edinburgh as women were in there wearing “No Thank You” T shirts.

mibbelucieachwell · 22/08/2021 11:53

I've been reading about that on Twitter. Other tweeters who have worked in pubs tweeting that their experience was that police officers often don't go to pubs to assist in kicking punters out.

Rhannion · 23/08/2021 00:25

My friends were that group of women and they were there after a show, had food and drinks , then the “ manager “ decided “ he” didn’t want them there anymore after more friends joined the group. They were called “ terfs” and hateful, 5 police turned up which is absolutely ridiculous! No charges were brought, no names were taken. It was appalling and over the top reaction to a group of women in a pub having a good time. But Women Won’t Wheest in Scotland 💚🤍💜

Rhannion · 23/08/2021 00:25

They were not thrown out, they left in their own time at their own pace.

Waitwhat23 · 23/08/2021 07:03

I'm just hoping that this is a good chance for some sunlight on this issue. People not in the know are a bit baffled as to what the issue was and anyone saying 'well, they shouldn't have put flyers/stickers in the bathroom!, has clearly never been in Edinburgh during August! The bar manager is a bully and is not showing himself (or herself- they describe themselves as an AGP male in their Twitter bio so.....) in a very poor light.

Waitwhat23 · 23/08/2021 07:04

And apparently there was a ongoing assault on the other side of the city who had to wait hours for Police presence but this incident seems to have been prioritised (5 Police?!).

KittenKong · 23/08/2021 08:31

I’m amazed they didn’t send a police horse too (what was that one again?)

Mango1982 · 23/08/2021 08:46

Waitwhat23

People are not baffled they know men can’t change into women and gut tells them it tells weong
Men don’t care because it’s not effecting them
Woke leftists don’t care because this in an task in finding out who’s is in the IN a group and will lie when required. And the moderate left have been so captured their time scared

OP posts:
KittenKong · 23/08/2021 08:49

On one level it’s quite a study of social experimentation isn’t it? Many PhDs in there.

Waitwhat23 · 23/08/2021 17:17

@Mango1982 sorry, didn't explain that very clearly. There is an article on Edinburgh Live that is so vague and non specific that unless people are aware of the background, they will be utterly baffled as to what the incident on Saturday was all about.

Mango1982 · 23/08/2021 17:57

Fair enough

OP posts:
Waitwhat23 · 02/09/2021 22:13

The analysis of the second GRA consultation has been published -

www.gov.scot/publications/gender-recognition-reform-scotland-bill-analysis-responses-public-consultation-exercise/

I was rather startled to read that TRA groups responded that they don't think the lowering of the age restriction goes far enough (18 down to 16) and have argued it should go lower (18 down to 12) and without parental consent.

StarryEyeSurprise · 03/09/2021 09:07

Where's the evidence please?

ElephantOfRisk · 03/09/2021 09:19

Did you read it?

"While welcoming the proposal to reduce the minimum age for legal gender recognition to 16, some respondents encouraged the Scottish Government to go further and make provision for children under 16. It was suggested that as children over 12 are deemed to have legal capacity to make decisions in certain circumstances, this principle could apply to gender recognition"

Y0uCann0tBeSer10us · 03/09/2021 09:55

I can't help thinking that these TRAs are shooting themselves in the foot by targeting children. Plenty of people who are overall on the fence of transrights (or perhaps haven't given it much detailed thought) are going to start paying attention when young teenagers (or 4 year olds if SG guidance is anything to go by) are 'encouraged' down the trans route when they start exploring their own identity. Plenty of kids wonder about their gender and sexuality as teenagers as it's a confusing time, and the vast majority navigate their way through it successfully. If it was just a matter using pronouns or dressing differently that would arguably be confusing enough, but kids going far enough down this route are offered life-altering 'treatments' with severe consequences for their future health and fertility. To suggest that parents should have no role in these major, potentially life-altering decisions makes me sick to my stomach.

annabelindajane · 03/09/2021 10:52

Ultimately I think some subversives want to get the age of consent lowered . SNP are incapable of running country so Boris was absolutely correct that Devolution has been disastrous for Scotland . These totally unacceptable policies re children and choosing gender cost money and time that might be better spent elsewhere.

Any SNP teachers wish to comment . ? Would be interesting to hear their thoughts .

Waitwhat23 · 03/09/2021 12:57

This evidence -

5.12 Among those who disagreed, a large majority made clear in their further comments that they thought the age should not be reduced at all, although a small number (including one Trans Group) disagreed because they thought it should be reduced further, to include those under 16. Small numbers of other respondents who thought the age should be reduced to below 16 did not answer the closed question (including two Trans Groups, anLGBTGroup and a Third Sector Support Organisation), while an Other respondent chose 'don't know' for the same reason. As noted at paragraph 5.32 onward, many respondents who agreed that the minimum age should be reduced to 16 also argued that legal gender recognition should be possible at an earlier age.

Legal recognition for those under 16

5.36 While welcoming the proposal to reduce the minimum age for legal gender recognition to 16, many respondents encouraged the Scottish Government to go further and make provision for children under 16. This was argued to be in keeping with many of the principles of theUNCRCas referenced above. It was also suggested that as children over 12 are deemed to have legal capacity to make decisions in certain circumstances, this principle could apply to gender recognition.

5.37 It was also argued that, although the consultation paper suggests young people under 16 are likely to be uncertain of their gender identity, this is not necessarily the case. A small number of trans children who are very confident and certain of their gender were reported to have fully socially transitioned with the support of family, peers and school and it was suggested these young people should have access to legal gender recognition.

5.38 The majority of those who argued in favour of legal gender change for under 16s suggested this should be made possible with parental approval, sometimes noting precedents for this in other countries. Other respondents proposed such a right should be irrespective of parental agreement or did not reference such agreement.

5.39 With reference to a mechanism for those who do not have parental support, there were suggestions that it would be preferable for this to be an administrative process, although the possibility that a court process might be required was also acknowledged. A specific suggestion was that mediation and assessment of capacity[17]should be made to determine if the young person understands the implications of their decision if they wish to legally change gender without parental consent.

5.40 Provision for under 16s to change their legal gender and amend their birth certificate was also argued to be in line with existing rights for this age group to change their sex on school records, medical records, and passports. Under 16s were argued to be particularly dependent on their birth certificate as proof of identity.

forfucksakenett · 03/09/2021 17:34

@Y0uCann0tBeSer10us

I can't help thinking that these TRAs are shooting themselves in the foot by targeting children. Plenty of people who are overall on the fence of transrights (or perhaps haven't given it much detailed thought) are going to start paying attention when young teenagers (or 4 year olds if SG guidance is anything to go by) are 'encouraged' down the trans route when they start exploring their own identity. Plenty of kids wonder about their gender and sexuality as teenagers as it's a confusing time, and the vast majority navigate their way through it successfully. If it was just a matter using pronouns or dressing differently that would arguably be confusing enough, but kids going far enough down this route are offered life-altering 'treatments' with severe consequences for their future health and fertility. To suggest that parents should have no role in these major, potentially life-altering decisions makes me sick to my stomach.
Are they being encouraged down a trans route though? Are they being offered life altering treatments immediately by teachers in school? I think that's simplifying matters a bit.
mapleleavesreturn · 03/09/2021 17:42

I don't see why schools need to be involved in any aspect of transitioning - I wouldn't expect schools to council my dd if she decided she was gay, why is this any different?

Schools are supposed to teach children aren't they? Mental health and medical support is not their province and neither is undermining parents.

mapleleavesreturn · 03/09/2021 17:43

counsel

Y0uCann0tBeSer10us · 03/09/2021 18:39

@forfucksakenett No-one is suggesting it would be immediate, but that is where this path ultimately ends if things aren't handled properly. I think teachers/schools supporting pupils to 'socially transition' without the involvement of the parents, and hence without knowing the wider home context, could lead some children to come to the 'wrong' conclusion about their gender identity. (I'm not suggesting that children are never trans before someone jumps on me, just that childhood is a confusing time in the best situations, and children don't have enough life experience to make such profound decisions and their family are the ones to help them through it.) I don't know about anyone else, but my children's school is a giant black hole and I have no idea what goes in there - I can quite believe that if parents are being actively excluded from these discussions a child could be 'identifying' as the other gender for months or years, and it may then just become ingrained in them when it might not otherwise have been. I'd much rather have trans-children not be 'transitioned' in school but have the option to change as adults if they choose, than children transitioning or using puberty blockers early and then bitterly regretting that choice and wondering why they were allowed to do that to themselves at an age where they're not even trusted to vote. As above, I don't see that the school (or the state) has any business interfering in private family life in this way.