They didn’t learn from the named persons fiasco

[Mango1982]

twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1425875063149051906?s=20

🤷‍♀️😳

To think teachers maybe changing your child’s name covertly and keeping the name change a secret from parents

They didn’t learn form the named Persons over reach

If you're advocating policy though you do need to be able to put yourself in the shoes of other people who will be affected. Dorms isn't really an unusual concept. Girl guides. Youth hostels. Schools. The sleeper. The list goes on and people advocating abolishing segregation based on sex such as yourself need to consider all the consequences, even the unintended ones.

Well the changing rooms at both of my nearest leisure centres are mixed sex with all individual cubicles. Workplaces are mixed sex. When you get in a taxi or bus or a train these places are mixed sex. The world is mixed sex really isn't it? I appreciate that toilets are generally single sex but you've probably been sharing them with transwomen your whole life.

I'm not advocating the abolishment of single sex spaces. I'm saying that I don't have a problem with transwomen accessing them.

I mean a dorm isn't an unusual concept in the sense that I have heard of them. I have never slept in one but of course get that other people might do so often I guess.

How are you defining transwoman though? What are the criteria? If they are very loose and no-one is allowed to check them then you are effectively opening them to all men. Don't you agree? Or do you have a solution to that?

I'm not. That's not my place. If a person says they are a transwoman then that's good enough for me. We all live our life with a certain amount of trust in strangers and I don't get why this wouldn't be extended to some poor transwoman trying to use a toilet or recover in hospital.

Again you seem to be assuming that men with beards are going to crawl out of the wood work and start saying they are women in order to abuse and rape. Anyone who would do that is a danger no matter what they have access to. These people must be the tiniest majority ever.

We need better and safer public places for all if that's our only concern. We need deterrents to prevent attacks in the first place. CCTV outside these places as a deterrent, regular staff checks, harsher penalties for sexual assaults (which are currently a fucking joke) etc. I don't see why hundreds or maybe even thousands of trans people should suffer because there might be some weirdo abusers out there 🤷🏻‍♀️

And I might ask you the same. Do you currently challenge folk in single sex spaces? How would you define it? How do you know what their chromosomal make up is? You said you would welcome trans men into female spaces but could that not be potentially triggering for women as well? How would you know they were actually a woman?

It's just a nonsense. Live and let live.

Re schools: the LGBT Youth Scotland guidelines haven't yet been rolled out fully yet but they certainly teach that gender is a thing and should override sex segregation in some cases, so I don't understand why you're scoffing and claiming that this isn't being taught in schools. It's the prevailing ideology and it's being seen as an orthodoxy in schools with no-one contradicting it.

Vagina = woman
Penis = man

May well be true but pretty tricky to use as a gauge in a real life situation.

@Grellbunt

Re schools: the LGBT Youth Scotland guidelines haven't yet been rolled out fully yet but they certainly teach that gender is a thing and should override sex segregation in some cases, so I don't understand why you're scoffing and claiming that this isn't being taught in schools. It's the prevailing ideology and it's being seen as an orthodoxy in schools with no-one contradicting it.

Because I work in a school and what you have said is categorically and absolutely untrue.

@forfucksakenett

Vagina = woman Penis = man

May well be true but pretty tricky to use as a gauge in a real life situation.

Of course, which is precisely why societies have developed very strong social conventions to support single sex spaces so that, with the exception of a very few (narrowly defined), very few men ever try to access single sex spaces and those who do are quickly challenged. Dismantling that by loosening the definition of transwomen will make it much more difficult to challenge a man in bad faith.

@Grellbunt but you're describing a world we no longer live in. Gone are the days when all people were very obviously one sex or another. Lots and lots of people don't fit these categories and why should they?

That is an unintended consequence which must be weighed up against the benefit of any changes. If as you say genuine transwomen are already accessing single sex spaces I'm not sure why any changes are needed.

What is an unintended consequence?

And are you going to address the fact that you've lied about schools and their role in this?

Or at the very least seriously misunderstood.

If I was in hospital, which is the closest thing I can think of, and there were men there I wouldn't love it but wouldn't ultimately mind as they are well staffed and people are in and out constantly. If it was gay men or transwomen, however, I wouldn't be giving a shiny shit.

So what is it about gay or transwomen that makes them different from other males?

If it's dangerous to challenge a trans person - as you will be accused of being transphobic and this could result in you eg being sacked, then the trans labelled in society risk making themselves a hiding place for perverts.
No one called out the Rotherham child abusers because they risked being accused of racism. If you can't call out someone as it would put your job at risks then you don't call them out. Perhaps the gov is giving people too much protection.

@334bu

*If I was in hospital, which is the closest thing I can think of, and there were men there I wouldn't love it but wouldn't ultimately mind as they are well staffed and people are in and out constantly. If it was gay men or transwomen, however, I wouldn't be giving a shiny shit.*

So what is it about gay or transwomen that makes them different from other males?

Great question. I genuinely don't really know.

@MamsellMarie

If it's dangerous to challenge a trans person - as you will be accused of being transphobic and this could result in you eg being sacked, then the trans labelled in society risk making themselves a hiding place for perverts. No one called out the Rotherham child abusers because they risked being accused of racism. If you can't call out someone as it would put your job at risks then you don't call them out. Perhaps the gov is giving people too much protection.

Yeah that sounds like a great idea. Not. 🤯

So single sex wards are not necessary in your view, despite the policy being introduced because of a surge in sexual assaults?

@Grellbunt

Re schools: the LGBT Youth Scotland guidelines haven't yet been rolled out fully yet but they certainly teach that gender is a thing and should override sex segregation in some cases, so I don't understand why you're scoffing and claiming that this isn't being taught in schools. It's the prevailing ideology and it's being seen as an orthodoxy in schools with no-one contradicting it.

I'm sure I already linked to the lessons. They have been rolled out . I'd be interested to know which lesson you're referring to.

I have lied????

Aside from the fact that the LGBTQ lessons don't for a second suggest that sex is completely irrelevant, I'd also be keen for a link that shows where N5 biology, Higher Biology and Higher Human Biology have been removed from the curriculum to help promote this 'orthodoxy'

@Grellbunt

I have lied????

I would say so yes. I've quoted the post I believe to be a lie earlier. Feel free to show me how it's true.