They didn’t learn from the named persons fiasco

[Mango1982]

twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1425875063149051906?s=20

🤷‍♀️😳

To think teachers maybe changing your child’s name covertly and keeping the name change a secret from parents

They didn’t learn form the named Persons over reach

@forfucksakenett

People cannot change sex. They absolutely can identify outwith their born sex though. As I've said people do it all the time. Transwomen and trans men have used single sex spaces for my whole lifetime.

I am conflating sex and gender because we don't live in a world where we test people's chromosomes on a cellular level in our day to day encounters. We use gender markers which are often based on stereotypes to make assumptions about a persons sex. We might be right, we might be wrong. Ultimately, with the exception of sport which is a far more complex issue, it's none of our business though what a strangers born sex is though is it?

It very much is our business what sex someone is, though, because the law and social conventions have for centuries used it in risk assessment >> hence single sex spaces. Given that something like 98% of sexual crime is perpetrated by the male sex, sex does matter and it very much is my business. And as has been discussed extensively on here, it is illusory to think that women can't tell who is male at a glance in 99% of cases. Even my toddler can tell who is male.

@Grellbunt sorry but it's really none of your business. The vast majority of people are innocent and going about their daily lives. You don't get to police what's in their pants thankfully. Did your eyes come with chromosome recognition? That's amazing. lots of folk pass as the opposite sex just fine. Do you actually think that transwomen use the male toilets/ changing rooms? You've probably been sharing single sex spaces with them for years.

What a charmed charmed life you must have led.

I'll decide what's my business, thanks.

Safeguarding is everyone's business

Sex separation is done for safeguarding

And most women are pretty good chromosome identification

Why is it always the same tired cliche script arguments?

@Grellbunt

What a charmed charmed life you must have led.

I'll decide what's my business, thanks.

This - it absolutely is the business of women to debate and discuss the access of men into single sex spaces. Why wouldn't it be? Women know which sex commits the vast majority of crimes against them.

www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p09yk883
Stephen Nolan investigates Stonewall. Episode 6 covers the Scottish Gov's removal of the word mother.

Feel free to disagree with me but please avoid the patronising comments about what a charmed life I must have had.

Seems you don't believe anyone would ever misuse these provisions in bad faith. And by the way I felt pretty patronised by your words but you didn't feel that was an issue.

Yes, ‘none of your business’ sounds very similar to Nicola Sturgeon, ‘feminist to her fingertips’, your concerns are ‘not valid’.
Rarely, have I been angrier by that particular statement.

It is also very much my business if they are teaching my children and their peers in school that gender, a made up thing, takes precedence over bio sex, very much a tangible, real thing... and punishing said children if any one of them attempts to point out that this is the wrong way round and the emperor in fact has no clothes.

It is further very much my business that my beloved country is run by people who pressurise charities and schools to adopt guidelines that are "ahead of the law" and ignore public opinion and responses to consultations because they are desperately seeking to score political points at home and abroad in the "most progressive" stakes. It worries me that it has come to this. That's not a healthy political culture at all.

Oh, and by the way, I'm not even a Unionist.

@Grellbunt

It is also very much my business if they are teaching my children and their peers in school that gender, a made up thing, takes precedence over bio sex, very much a tangible, real thing... and punishing said children if any one of them attempts to point out that this is the wrong way round and the emperor in fact has no clothes.

It is further very much my business that my beloved country is run by people who pressurise charities and schools to adopt guidelines that are "ahead of the law" and ignore public opinion and responses to consultations because they are desperately seeking to score political points at home and abroad in the "most progressive" stakes. It worries me that it has come to this. That's not a healthy political culture at all.

You're working yourself up over something which isn't reality. Seriously- mother to mother. There's a lot of s*it going on in the world which we should be angry about on our children's behalf but no teachers are doing what you believe they are.

@Grellbunt

Seems you don't believe anyone would ever misuse these provisions in bad faith. And by the way I felt pretty patronised by your words but you didn't feel that was an issue.

Transgender people are already using a chunk of these provisions without issue.

I think assuming that transgender folk will misuse single sexual spaces is a slippery slope.

Maybe we should all focus our attention on considering how to make this work for everyone but instead both sides prefer a no discussion approach. 🤷🏻‍♀️

@Grellbunt

It is also very much my business if they are teaching my children and their peers in school that gender, a made up thing, takes precedence over bio sex, very much a tangible, real thing... and punishing said children if any one of them attempts to point out that this is the wrong way round and the emperor in fact has no clothes.

It is further very much my business that my beloved country is run by people who pressurise charities and schools to adopt guidelines that are "ahead of the law" and ignore public opinion and responses to consultations because they are desperately seeking to score political points at home and abroad in the "most progressive" stakes. It worries me that it has come to this. That's not a healthy political culture at all.

No teacher that I've ever met or worked with is doing this. There's a very strange belief floating about mumsnet that schools have overnight turned into hotbeds of gender radicalisation and all us teachers can't wait for a female pupil to get her hair cut short so we can tell her she's male and rush out and buy her a binder.

It's not the actual "transgender folk" I'm concerned about. It's the others who will misuse it and the younger ones who will be drawn into this.

'Drawn into this'? Honestly. Here's a lesson plan from the new LGBT training. On the actual PowerPoint, it includes one gay role model, Tom Daley. @forfucksakenett said it well. Mumsnet has no bearing in reality in what will be taught in schools.

People who would misuse it would fall into the category of abusers and criminals. Abusers and criminals sadly always find a way to access victims. They won't be conjured into existence by this. They're here already.

What do you mean 'younger ones who would be drawn into this?' Do you think that being transgender comes with special hypnotic powers. I don't think it does btw.

Exactly, abusers are around
Don't make it easy for them
Take basic precautions

@bordersroaming

Exactly, abusers are around Don't make it easy for them Take basic precautions

Ideally those basic precautions would not include excluding a vulnerable person from a safe space surely?

Maybe our attention would be better spent making all public spaces where vulnerable people are safer.

The rapid growth especially in young females expressing a trans identity is highly suggestive of a social contagion aspect

Unfortunately associated with lesbian, autistic , depressed and gender none conforming children trying to get treatment that will physically harm them and often sterilise them

So it's not harmless and any teaching needs to understand that social context

You don't make spaces safer by removing the current mechanisms without putting alternative solutions in place first

@forfucksakenett

We can make our public spaces Safer for vulnerable people by tackling true transphobia namely = transphobia and violence from the men who abuse trans people (ie other men who are gender non-confirming) driven by toxic masculinity. It's toxic masculinity and gender stereotypes that are the issue, not women.

japantoday.com/category/crime/man-in-drag-arrested-for-voyeuristic-filming-in-women%E2%80%99s-toilet

boston.cbslocal.com/2021/10/19/wrentham-outlets-jacob-guerrero-amazon-driver-child-pornography-charges/