They didn’t learn from the named persons fiasco

[Mango1982]

twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1425875063149051906?s=20

🤷‍♀️😳

To think teachers maybe changing your child’s name covertly and keeping the name change a secret from parents

They didn’t learn form the named Persons over reach

Because men do dress as women, go into women's toilets and take photos/videos of women or girls going to the toilet.

Indeed. Not quite sure why making it socially unacceptable to challenge someone going into the ladies while obviously not a woman is supposed to make it better...how about asking men to "expand the bandwidth of manhood" and not attack trans folk in their toilets/other single sex facilities? Why not? Why can't men "be kind"?

Seems to me that like making misogyny a hate crime would be "too hard"

@Grellbunt

Indeed. Not quite sure why making it socially unacceptable to challenge someone going into the ladies while obviously not a woman is supposed to make it better...how about asking men to "expand the bandwidth of manhood" and not attack trans folk in their toilets/other single sex facilities? Why not? Why can't men "be kind"?

I would assume that most trans men do use the make toilets do they not?

I think @Grellbunt was referring to trans woman there? Those born with male genitalia who now identify as female. ( but I suspect you knew that @forfucksakenett ).

No sorry I genuinely wasn't following. So did she mean that transwomen should also use the male toilets? So males, transwomen and trans men in the male toilets and women in the women?

Trans men are welcome to use the women's.

Since toilets are designed for our biological needs rather than our personality or our sartorial sense.

@Grellbunt

Trans men are welcome to use the women's.

How very generous of you! 🤣

@Grellbunt

Since toilets are designed for our biological needs rather than our personality or our sartorial sense.

Pretty sure all our biological needs could be met in either the male or the female toilets.

People tend to use toilets based on their social needs. Their own personal comfort and their outward appearance.

So you literally only care about the genitalia of the person using the space?

I'm talking, as you well know, about the risk of rape. So yeah genitalia are of great interest to me. See also : when I'm naked in a changing room, sleeping, unconscious in a hospital ward, being counselled after being raped with a penis, and when I'm locked in a secure mental health facility, or a prison. Is that ok? Am I not allowed to know about genitalia then either?

It ain't funny.

I feel like the jump from allowing transwomen to use a female toilet to transwomen will start raping women in toilets to be honest.

Prisons and other secure units are the only examples on your list that cause me any concern.

Sadly because of the hysterical nonsense surrounding policing toilets and arguing that teachers are trying to convert our young people we can't have a sensible conversation about these places because both 'sides' for want of a better phrase have decided that there's no debate to be had!

@Grellbunt

It ain't funny.

I'm not sure where I suggested that it was.

Again I repeat it is not necessarily the transwomen who would be the perpetrators- I am simply saying that if you make places mixed sex then they are far less safe for everyone. I just don't see why that it is controversial.

So you personally would be happy sleeping in a dorm with strangers some of whom will have male genitalia? Really?

The crying laughing emoji you used?

@Grellbunt

The crying laughing emoji you used?

Yes. I concede that I found that comment a bit funny. I don't find rape funny however and I misunderstood the comment you were referring to. Apologies.

@Grellbunt

So you personally would be happy sleeping in a dorm with strangers some of whom will have male genitalia? Really?

What dorm? When? Do you mean in a hospital or similar?

@Grellbunt

Again I repeat it is not necessarily the transwomen who would be the perpetrators- I am simply saying that if you make places mixed sex then they are far less safe for everyone. I just don't see why that it is controversial.

Well lots of places are mixed sex and are perfectly safe. Our need to tackle sexual violence in public places doesn't need to come at the expense of innocent trans people who are using their choice of toilets for the same reason we are - safety and comfort.

I said when I was sleeping and you said that wasn't a situation that concerned you. So perhaps you can elaborate on the type of situation where you would be happy be sleeping in a dorm with strangers with penises.

When making policy we must consider all possible scenarios that the new rules will govern.

I've been happy to share with trans people until now because I've had a degree of confidence in the system and I've been fairly sure that people weren't identifying as trans on a whim or for nefarious reasons...but if the system is made so loose that "trans" means just "on my say so" then it becomes wide open to abuse, and my confidence is lost. Then I'm not sure that everyone who claims to be trans is in good faith.

@Grellbunt

I said when I was sleeping and you said that wasn't a situation that concerned you. So perhaps you can elaborate on the type of situation where you would be happy be sleeping in a dorm with strangers with penises.

I genuinely can't imagine being in a dorm - I have little to no idea what you mean and I missed it in your original post.

If I was in hospital, which is the closest thing I can think of, and there were men there I wouldn't love it but wouldn't ultimately mind as they are well staffed and people are in and out constantly. If it was gay men or transwomen, however, I wouldn't be giving a shiny shit.

Places where I am undressed and vulnerable, or which are secluded with lockable doors like toilets, have generally not been mixed sex so I'm not quite following your argument. Can you give examples of what you mean?