Guilt Free Railing 8

[WouldBeGood]

Can’t believe it’s needed….

@GoldenOmber em okay.

I don't mean to be rude but the general scientific consensus is that this is more contagious than any of these. Chris Whitty I remember addressed this way back. I will try to find the video. It was really interesting and informative in explaining the difference between established and novel viruses.

For children born in the last few years, RSV and chickenpox and croup and all the other nastiest are just as new as covid is. Should we put in close-contact isolations for all of those for the under-3s?

That's not how it works. That's not what novel virus means. Our immune systems are genetic to an extent. Inherited. We don't inherit straight immunity for chicken pox for example but we inherit a blueprint of sorts that tells our bodies what to do with it. Coronavirus is entirely novel. We don't have that blueprint or that inherited ability to process it. Future generations will of course. It's some of the most fascinating stuff I e ever heard scientists talk about. I'm sure it was a Gresham College lecture. Not sure if I have that name correct.

@forfucksakenett

Or perhaps I've missed yours?

My point is that if we are just looking at risk to children, we have plenty of diseases that carry as much or more risk to children where we aren't planning to put in measures like 10-day isolation of close contacts.

@forfucksakenett

For children born in the last few years, RSV and chickenpox and croup and all the other nastiest are just as new as covid is. Should we put in close-contact isolations for all of those for the under-3s?

That's not how it works. That's not what novel virus means. Our immune systems are genetic to an extent. Inherited. We don't inherit straight immunity for chicken pox for example but we inherit a blueprint of sorts that tells our bodies what to do with it. Coronavirus is entirely novel. We don't have that blueprint or that inherited ability to process it. Future generations will of course. It's some of the most fascinating stuff I e ever heard scientists talk about. I'm sure it was a Gresham College lecture. Not sure if I have that name correct.

That's not how it works.

We develop broad population-level resistance to some viruses, but viruses don't become less and less and less nasty because they've been around longer. Otherwise, why would measles (has been around for thousands of years) kill more children every single year than covid (has been around for two)?

(actually, possibly measles deaths have been less this year due to various lockdowns? Malaria, though, I bet you malaria has killed more children than covid this year.)

Measles is a much worse disease than Covid. As I said several posts back there are many viruses worse than Covid. I certainly am not suggesting that certain illnesses get less dangerous the longer they've been around. I'm. It sure where you think I've said that tbh.

Is measles not pretty much eradicated in the uk? I think every couple of years an unvaccinated adult dies of it. I'm pretty sure measles doesn't kill kids in the uk anymore thankfully.

@forfucksakenett

Is measles not pretty much eradicated in the uk? I think every couple of years an unvaccinated adult dies of it. I'm pretty sure measles doesn't kill kids in the uk anymore thankfully.

Kills plenty of kids elsewhere.

Yeah I'm not sure what your point is though?

@forfucksakenett

Yeah I'm not sure what your point is though?

In this case: that being a 'novel virus' doesn't make a virus more dangerous than being a very old virus that's been knocking around for generations.

Jesus wept.

You're really not getting this are you?

Of course there are worse diseases and viruses across the world. Lots of them.

Malaria is maybe more dangerous in Africa than Covid is. Fair point. Ebola also definitely worse.

In our context, in a country where thankfully we don't have to deal with the horrors of malaria and what not regularly, a novel virus is hugely problematic. It runs rampant through the population at an exponential rate because it is novel. Other illnesses currently don't do this. Croup, rsv etc contagious but not at the same rate.

So we shouldn't mitigate against covid here because kids die of malaria in Africa? Is that seriously your point?

So we shouldn't mitigate against covid here because kids die of malaria in Africa? Is that seriously your point?

My point, for perhaps the third? fourth? time now:

You said that we should keep school isolations in place because of covid's risk to children.

I said that other diseases present as much risk to children, but we don't put those measures in place against those. So it's inconsistent to put them in place for covid, if we're only doing it on the grounds of covid's risk to children.

I don't think it's really that hard a point to grasp?

And yes there are plenty of diseases, in this country, infecting children even now every single day, that are more infectious than covid is. Really honestly truly, there are.

You have yet to suggest another illness that poses as significant a risk or is as contagious. Except measles and malaria which we don't have here.

@GoldenOmber

And yes there are plenty of diseases, in this country, infecting children even now every single day, that are more infectious than covid is. Really honestly truly, there are.

I'm all ears!

Chickenpox of course has a near 0 fatality rate...

I'm all ears!

I'm not sure what else to tell you, because I've given you examples like RSV and croup multiple times already?

But okay, how about chickenpox? R number of about 10. Far more infectious even than delta.

@StarryEyeSurprise

Chickenpox of course has a near 0 fatality rate...

As does covid - in children, which is what we are talking about.

@forfucksakenett

Is measles not pretty much eradicated in the uk? I think every couple of years an unvaccinated adult dies of it. I'm pretty sure measles doesn't kill kids in the uk anymore thankfully.

measles is still on going in the UK and TB has also returned in certain parts of the UK it's in lower numbers but still about.

Mostly as a result of refusal to vaccinate.

I think its hard to tell no other illnesses typically get recorded in the same way as covid. Hand foot and mouth for example spreads like wildfire through a nursery but it's not really recorded by Dr's as it's treated at home.

Rsv and croup are not more contagious than Covid though.

Chickenpox might well have a higher R number but it's not a novel virus and therefore doesn't spread the same way.

It's no wonder you're angry and confused about the restrictions though because you clearly don't grasp the basics of the situation.

So, they recognise the risk to children from vaccines is greater than that from Covid, but they need to be vaccinated to keep schools open, in the face of a virus where the vulnerable are already vaccinated?

Rsv and croup are not more contagious than Covid though.

They are about as contagious, and both more dangerous to children.

but it's not a novel virus and therefore doesn't spread the same way.

Okay, look, I will try to explain this carefully.

Novel viruses spread fast through a population because nobody has immunity to them. Whether they're 'new' or not is not the point, whether they're new to that population is the point. So measles wasn't a novel virus in the 17th century, but it killed lots and lots of native Americans because to that population, they'd had no exposure to it, so it was brand new.

To young children, every disease is new. That's why viruses go around like wildfire at nurseries - the population of under-3s don't have immunity yet, because that virus is totally new to them.

By the time children get to school, most of them won't have to worry about RSV. The reason for that is that most of them will have already had it, before the age of 2. That's how contagious it is - it infects almost every single child in the country in their first two years of life.

It's no wonder you're angry and confused about the restrictions though because you clearly don't grasp the basics of the situation.

I'm trying to stay polite here, because these are important issues and I don't think slinging mud helps.

God, @forfucksakenett, that's loads. I work in a large urban secondary school and none of our pupils have suffered long term covid complications, thank goodness. (Barring mental health issues, I suppose).

I don't think anyone is seriously suggesting that COVID actually poses any significant risk to children are they? (Well, apart from Scottish Government ministers, obviously, but we can safely ignore them....) For instance, all of the discussion around whether to vaccinate children or not seems to centre around either minimising community spread (and data so far suggests that you can get away with not vaccinating children in this respect), or in minimising disruption to their education, presumably by stopping the need for isolation. The obvious counter to that is that if adults are all vaccinated anyway, and we accept that COVID isn't a risk to children per se, why should cases in school lead to isolations or closures in the first place? I concede that we aren't quite there with vaccinating the adult population, but once this is achieved I see no good reason to make people (including children) isolate.

@Haudyourwheesht

God, *@forfucksakenett*, that's loads. I work in a large urban secondary school and none of our pupils have suffered long term covid complications, thank goodness. (Barring mental health issues, I suppose).

Yup. I think we've been really unlucky. We're a relatively smallish school as well compared to most. Roll of about 950 ish. In an urban area that has consistently had high high levels of covid though. It's been horrible.