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Scotsnet

Welcome to Scotsnet - discuss all aspects of life in Scotland, including relocating, schools and local areas.

Guilt Free Railing 8

994 replies

WouldBeGood · 14/06/2021 14:21

Can’t believe it’s needed….

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rookiemere · 08/07/2021 07:33

The issue is the schools is that it's very difficult to raise enough voices against unfairness without becoming embroiled in Usforthem.

There's zero way she'll commit to anything just now with the dire numbers and schools out, so we're almost guaranteed a repeat of Summer 2020 where the arrangements were finalised almost the day schools started.

I'm really worried about what exams/non exams will look like as well with DS going into S4. Poor teachers, I really thought this would all be over by now - mind you removal of SQA has little to do with Covid.

YeDancer · 08/07/2021 07:38

@frasersmummy

Well if we don't come out of lockdown now..then when??

When the schools are back??..nop she's gonna say we need to prioritise the schools

Then it will be autumn and she will say NHS might be overwhelmed ..

Before we know it ..it will be spring 2022..

Meanwhile in England parties , weddings nightclubs etc

And what is she going to do about furlough...the UK govt won't pay if England Is open I wouldn't think

I am honestly scunnered with her

She'll probably keep things like masks and social distancing in certain places.

Also level 0 whilst not full freedom, still lets pubs etc open, so no need for furlough, I don't think.

I think some areas might stay in level 1 though or move down to level 1, but not all areas in level 0

When do we find out for sure?

Icannever · 08/07/2021 08:30

How’s your holiday in Fife going @wouldbegood?

StarryEyeSurprise · 08/07/2021 08:44

For people that feel we should follow the PM's decision and remove all measures. I was reading an article (by a doctor) who referred to this as similar a nation wide 'pox party' and only 60 per cent of adults are vaccinated.
Are people feeling comfortable about getting covid? What about teenagers and children? I'm not due my 2nd until Aug (I'm so relieved I don't need to go into work until then) but I would still take precautions against catching it. Others seem much more relaxed about catching it? Looking at the bigger picture, vaccines percentages need to be higher - around 80 per cent at least or the 100,000 plus cases daily will cause serious illness and death to too many. That's how I'm understand it anyway!
I know Ireland feel the 'let it rip through the population with no measures in place' strategy is too risky until a higher percentage are vaccinated. Not sure what the Welsh experts are saying?

Y0uCann0tBeSer10us · 08/07/2021 09:04

@StarryEyeSurprise it's not 'letting rip' when all of the vulnerable are double jagged, and the vast majority of adults not at significant risk have also had at least one jag. The hospitalisation data looks clear that serious illness from COVID is much reduced. I don't know where Ireland are with their vaccination programmes, but perhaps their vulnerable are not yet protected? I think you have to consider all harms and I don't see how the NHS can properly deal with the backlog of other issues that are likely more of a risk now than COVID unless distancing and isolation go. A large part of the hospital pressures right now are more related to restrictions, such as needing distancing in waiting rooms and mass staff absences, plus people presenting for minor things because they can't see their GP.

ResilienceWanker · 08/07/2021 09:13

@SoMuchForSummerLove

I'm railing against Denmark as I had them in the family sweepie. I have lost my chance at the coveted Fudge Doughnut of Victory.
Nooooo. That must smart somuch! Bad luck. To be fair, I'd be pissed off too. I know nothing about football but I think there was a slightly "generous" referee decision from England's POV, without which, things could have gone the other way.
ResilienceWanker · 08/07/2021 09:29

Also level 0 whilst not full freedom, still lets pubs etc open, so no need for furlough, I don't think.

But there are still restrictions on loads of places in terms of numbers allowed/ capacity (and I think nightclubs aren't allowed even in level 0)- so staffing won't be at full requirements, and many small places will still have to stay closed. Plus theatres etc which rely on full audiences to break even. So the businesses which supply and support them will also be suffering and so on. It's easy to view things through the lens of "well, with a bit of organisation I can do pretty much what I want to" but there are huge amounts of businesses doing things that we wouldn't imagine would still be affected!

mibbe Urgh. That's bad timing! Hope you manage to avoid the worst!

rookie yes... I'm wary of joining anything to encourage the SG to make an early decision on schools, because last time the main voice against the plans turned out to be weapons-grade bonkers... But I can't believe they are still faffing around talking about continuing bubble isolation and class restrictions, and cancelling exams at this stage. Knowing full well that schools need more than the couple of days inset in August to implement anything they decide. Angry

StarryEyeSurprise · 08/07/2021 10:30

[quote Y0uCann0tBeSer10us]@StarryEyeSurprise it's not 'letting rip' when all of the vulnerable are double jagged, and the vast majority of adults not at significant risk have also had at least one jag. The hospitalisation data looks clear that serious illness from COVID is much reduced. I don't know where Ireland are with their vaccination programmes, but perhaps their vulnerable are not yet protected? I think you have to consider all harms and I don't see how the NHS can properly deal with the backlog of other issues that are likely more of a risk now than COVID unless distancing and isolation go. A large part of the hospital pressures right now are more related to restrictions, such as needing distancing in waiting rooms and mass staff absences, plus people presenting for minor things because they can't see their GP.[/quote]
The Irish Government's statement referred to the impact on Ireland due to the CTA. The impact of removing all measures will be that hospitalisations of the seriously ill will rise. That places huge pressure on hospitals.
There's also currently a £6m tender for the storage of bodies in London due to the expected increase in deaths.
All GPS should be seeing people- some are , some aren't. This is unlikely to improve with a huge increase in cases. Also the mass staff absences in hospitals are mostly due to it being peak holiday season.

Groovee · 08/07/2021 10:30

A couple of days for the inservice where we have our yearly child protection update to do as well as the H&S talks etc.

We're not allowed in to school over the summer. Major building works are going on so we need the time to set up. Teachers had to pack up their class rooms and the janitor will move it to their new class. Thankfully we have a lovely Janny.

Y0uCann0tBeSer10us · 08/07/2021 10:53

@StarryEyeSurprise I think it's less a case of the timing for opening up being good, but rather the least bad. If we start with the assumption that this can't continue into next year for all manner of reasons (which seems reasonable), it becomes a choice between now and waiting till all adults are vaccinated. Now, the most at risk are as protected as they'll ever be and the exit wave takes place over the summer when the NHS is under less strain. Waiting to vaccinate all adults (which still won't completely protect everyone due to limits on effectiveness etc.) pushes the exit wave into the autumn/winter when we are already expecting the NHS to be under heavier pressure than usual, and risks the whole system being overwhelmed. There is no realistic option where everyone is 'safe' from COVID. I'm genuinely curious what your exit strategy would be? Bearing in mind that zero COVID is not a realistic strategy?

Scottishskifun · 08/07/2021 11:08

@starryeyesuprise it's not really letting it rip especially in England, all the data shows that a jab within 6 months of having covid is greater antibody production and protection then those who are double jabbed. With the numbers at the moment so high especially in the younger population they only need 4 weeks from having covid to having a jab so they will actually be protected very shortly.

In addition it's not the number of cases which is causing the problem and pressure on hospitals its the isolation rules causing pressure on staffing levels.
If she got rid of the isolation rules same as England for double jabbed and using testing and a negative test instead then actually the hospitals would be in a far better place.

The virus is effected by heat and sunlight and it helps reduce the viral load in comparison to colder temperatures hence its better to get a wave out of the way in summer then it is in Autumn as there will be less cases as less people indoors and not going into respiratory illness season!

forfucksakenett · 08/07/2021 11:52

It is 'letting it rip' when they are predicting cases over 100,000 a day by august.

The impact will be lessened by the vaccine no doubt but I think letting it rip is exactly right phrase!

riverrunning · 08/07/2021 11:59

It looks clear to me we are going to see measures Tuesday if hospital situation still looks bad. Scot parl recalled...

Groovee · 08/07/2021 12:01

Went to the Dr with a sore lump on my finger in February. She decided it was a case for the ones in the know. Finally have an appointment for August.

latissimusdorsi · 08/07/2021 12:16

Don't agree with England's completely getting rid of everything at once but i completely agree with timing the exit wave for school holidays and least pressure on nhs
We're going to have ours as the schools go back, the only group that won't be vaccinated! Sheer madness!
We've just thrown our school kids under a bus
AGAINAngry

WouldBeGood · 08/07/2021 12:20

Letting it rip is fine. Got to be done.

OP posts:
WouldBeGood · 08/07/2021 12:24

Thanks @Icannever, I’m just home. Fife was beautiful: stayed in really lovely friendly hotel.

The towns were busy and Covid mental, with queues for every shop and cafe, so that was shite, but we went a nice wander along the shore and runs in the car to see the sights of our respective youth.

OP posts:
ElephantOfRisk · 08/07/2021 12:52

@Groovee

Went to the Dr with a sore lump on my finger in February. She decided it was a case for the ones in the know. Finally have an appointment for August.
DS went to GP in September, needed a hearing test done so we went to Boots as he said it could be a while on NHS. Got that completed and report back to GP in a couple of days. Then got another assessment for screening tests in October - was really pleased how quick it was happening. Was referred to a consultant, then nothing until May when he got an automated call to see if he wanted to remain on the list, then an appointment through for beg of June, then another call the week before cancelling it, then new appointment for end of next week, hoping we don't get another cancelling call. This for unexplained hearing loss in a young adult along with tinnitus. This could feasibly be something serious but apparently ok to wait 'cos Covid...
StarryEyeSurprise · 08/07/2021 14:27

I'll attach screenshots of an article in the Lancet which lists various reasons why the UK Government's approach is completely wrong.

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StarryEyeSurprise · 08/07/2021 14:28

It's the young who will be affected.

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latissimusdorsi · 08/07/2021 14:44

Even more reason why we need the exit wave here in school holidays🤷🏼‍♀️

Y0uCann0tBeSer10us · 08/07/2021 14:53

I've read the Lancet article by the indy SAGE people, and it's good that open discussion of the issues takes place. It's perfectly normal, and how science is supposed to work, especially in uncertain times like now. They seem to be suggesting that restrictions ( including bubbles) should remain in place not only until everyone is fully vaccinated, but also until "mitigation measures, especially adequate ventilation (through investment in CO2monitors and air filtration devices) and spacing (eg, by reducing class sizes), are in place in schools." In a lot of cases this would mean completely rebuilding schools and training up additional teachers! The damage done to society and children's education in the long time required to do this would be immense and unacceptable to most. Furthermore, they don't acknowledge non -COVID harms caused by restrictions anywhere, nor that timing the exit wave for the summer is a compromise position given the reality that you can't completely prevent morbidity from COVID. They don't say anything that hasn't already been addressed by the UK teams making decisions, and come across as extremist in their views.

Personally, for a balanced, less dogmatic view, I prefer to watch Tim Spector's updates ( from the Zoe app). He is broadly in favour of the July plan on balance overall, despite the long COVID cases that he expects will result, because it's necessary for life to get back to normal. Perhaps efforts would be better spent lobbying the SG to put in place long COVID clinics to deal with this. He did say he would continue to wear masks though Smile

Scottishskifun · 08/07/2021 15:02

@forfucksakenett

It is 'letting it rip' when they are predicting cases over 100,000 a day by august.

The impact will be lessened by the vaccine no doubt but I think letting it rip is exactly right phrase!

By the modelling yes but the modelling also put the death rate at this point in time at the last easing to be much much greater only a few months ago and also put the number of cases to be much higher at this point for England as well. Modelling is a indicator but reality very rarely follows it as you can't model everything and every variable.
forfucksakenett · 08/07/2021 15:36

I didn't say it was accurate @Scottishskifun I said it was a prediction that justifies the use of a phrase.

StarryEyeSurprise · 08/07/2021 16:26

@Y0uCann0tBeSer10us

I've read the Lancet article by the indy SAGE people, and it's good that open discussion of the issues takes place. It's perfectly normal, and how science is supposed to work, especially in uncertain times like now. They seem to be suggesting that restrictions ( including bubbles) should remain in place not only until everyone is fully vaccinated, but also until "mitigation measures, especially adequate ventilation (through investment in CO2monitors and air filtration devices) and spacing (eg, by reducing class sizes), are in place in schools." In a lot of cases this would mean completely rebuilding schools and training up additional teachers! The damage done to society and children's education in the long time required to do this would be immense and unacceptable to most. Furthermore, they don't acknowledge non -COVID harms caused by restrictions anywhere, nor that timing the exit wave for the summer is a compromise position given the reality that you can't completely prevent morbidity from COVID. They don't say anything that hasn't already been addressed by the UK teams making decisions, and come across as extremist in their views.

Personally, for a balanced, less dogmatic view, I prefer to watch Tim Spector's updates ( from the Zoe app). He is broadly in favour of the July plan on balance overall, despite the long COVID cases that he expects will result, because it's necessary for life to get back to normal. Perhaps efforts would be better spent lobbying the SG to put in place long COVID clinics to deal with this. He did say he would continue to wear masks though Smile

WHO's Dr Mike Ryan: Letting Covid cases surge is 'epidemiological stupidity.

A TOP doctor at the World Health Organisation has warned countries against allowing coronavirus cases to spiral – calling the strategy “epidemiological stupidity”.

Dr Mike Ryan, the executive director of the WHO’s Health Emergencies Programme, was asked about states deciding to lift restrictions at this point in the pandemic.

Earlier this week Boris Johnson announced that masks and social distancing would be scrapped in England despite cases quickly increasing and fears over the Delta variant. Legal limits of meeting will also come to an end, while large events will be able to take place again.

Sajid Javid, the UK Government’s new Health Secretary, said ministers think cases could grow to 100,000 per day over the next few weeks – but are confident that vaccination has done enough to prevent a significant number of hospitalisations and deaths. However, Johnson warned the public to expect more deaths.

Dr Ryan, who leads the WHO team responsible for the international containment of Covid-19, hit out at the “moral emptiness” of allowing coronavirus cases to grow significantly. He warned it is a “dangerous assumption to assume everything is Kumbaya” even in European countries where most people have had at least one vaccination.

Asked by a BBC journalist about the logic of allowing more people to be infected, Dr Ryan responded: “I’m not aware that that’s the logic driving our colleagues in the United Kingdom. I suspect it is not.

“I would like to verify that is the logic but the logic of more people being infected is better, is I think logic that has proven its moral emptiness and its epidemiological stupidity previously.”

Meanwhile this morning the chief executive of NHS Providers said there are risks to the NHS if England eases coronavirus restriction this month.

Chris Hopson told BBC Radio 4’s Today programme: “We need to be realistic and we need to be open and honest about the fact that there are risks if we relax these restrictions and there will be consequences.

“The NHS won’t be able to do everything given the demand pressures it has got and the fact that we have got reduced capacity in terms of both beds and staff numbers.”

He said there would be “very significant” pressure on the NHS and “we will have to dial back on elective recovery”.

Hmm Hmm

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