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Scotsnet

Welcome to Scotsnet - discuss all aspects of life in Scotland, including relocating, schools and local areas.

Here we go again with the Rangers fans.

446 replies

forfucksakenett · 15/05/2021 17:37

So irresponsible. Here we go again. Will Glasgow ever be out of lockdown?

OP posts:
DeclineandFall · 19/05/2021 11:26

I'm from NI. I came to Scotland 30 years ago. I have an unabating hatred of both sides of the Old Firm. The things that were allowed to be got away with in Scotland in the name of football is shameful. I was quite shocked when I first came.

I don't fit into a box easily, I have family both sides of the border in Ireland, I'm a nationalist but I suppose a Protestant atheist but with Catholic relations. I come from a place that was mixed half and half including my school. I like football but follow a small provincial team because to me The Old Firm is poison. I strongly believe that a better society comes from an education which should be secular and comprehensive. The worst abuse I've had is from Celtic Fans. The worst behaviour I've seen is from Rangers fans.

However none of that has any bearing on what happened at the weekend. That was Rangers and their anti Catholic rhetoric on show and needs to be dealt with. The problem is noone has dared take them on. I hope the appetite for it is there now.

I don't know many Rangers fans, I do know a lot of Celtic fans and we often talk about why they think their support is superior when they know how sectarian they can be too. Partly, it's because they see themselves as the underclass therefore their sectarianism is a protest rather than a howl of superiority. It doesn't feel that great when you're sitting in a pub when they are all singing about the IRA and worse. Or walking to Parkhead with my friend who's English with no colours on getting spat at repeatedly. Celtic has its own problems to deal with and just saying 'we're not as bad as them' isn't helpful.

But it wasn't Celtic who trashed the streets this weekend. The mealy mouthed statement from Rangers was the worst bit of it. I really think the club should be severely penalised.

I used to think the Old Firm carried on the way they did because it was like they were playing at being terrorists. Noone in Scotland was being bombed or shot at in the streets. The NI Unionists and supporters are now firmly on the back foot everywhere. Their unassailable superiority is now on shoogly ground so winning this title was bound to be a powder keg. Maybe now that poor man has been petrol bombed this might shake Scot Gov and the police up to realising what a mess they have let fester.

thedevilinablackdress · 19/05/2021 11:33

Well said DeclineandFall

Albless · 19/05/2021 11:42

@Morgan12

Being a Catholic isn't the problem. Attending a Catholic school isn't the problem. Having Catholic schools isn't the problem.

Hatred of catholics is the problem. And I'm fairly certain that this is taught at home.

This!

I’m a Church of Scotland minister and my DS attended Catholic primary and secondary schools, in Glasgow. There were various reasons for school choice, but the main reason was that Catholic schools are good schools. And they are good schools because they are founded upon and shaped by gospel values. As an aside, I do find it bizarre to see posts from MN’ers in England who choose to send their children to CofE schools because they’re also good schools, but object to the Christian aspect. That is what makes those schools different, and better!

My DS, now 19, works in McDonalds near Central Station. I’m not in Glasgow and wasn’t aware of what was happening till I phoned him early on Saturday evening. He rejected my call then sent a few short texts to say he was waiting for bus home, city centre not a friendly place at the time and he was trying to avoid drawing attention to himself. His work closed early as it was mayhem both inside and outside the restaurant. On his short walk to the bus stop he was walking over broken glass and saw 3 people with blood pouring down their faces.

This horrific violence has nothing to do with Celtic, has nothing to do with Catholic schools, or with Christianity, and everything to do with an acceptance of sectarianism and the hatred perpetuated by the Orange Order, their supporters and apologists.

Yakkabee · 19/05/2021 12:49

Great post @DeclineandFall !

Articulated better than ever I could have, but I feel very similarly to you.

Wish I shared your optimism that things will change now! The Old Firm is poison, but too “valuable” to Scotland to do make any meaningful change I fear.

Quincie · 19/05/2021 13:03

People attend faith schools because, imv, they attract a more middle class clientele - true some are Christians but I'm sure it's more that they attract fewer rough children.
Church of England schools in England were the same.
I can't believe all attendees at Cath schools who aren't catholic magically have fewer behaviour problems and better results.

Morgan12 · 19/05/2021 13:17

@Quincie

People attend faith schools because, imv, they attract a more middle class clientele - true some are Christians but I'm sure it's more that they attract fewer rough children. Church of England schools in England were the same. I can't believe all attendees at Cath schools who aren't catholic magically have fewer behaviour problems and better results.
Where do you live?

This is absolutely not the case in my town. You go to the catchment school and that's that. Unless you pay for private school.

Quincie · 19/05/2021 13:21

Previous posters were choosing Catholic schools so not necessarily their nearest

Quincie · 19/05/2021 13:24

My point is that it can be seen as divisive if people choose the better Catholic school rather than the local comp. Especially if you are a C of S minister! As if your too good to mix with others

Yakkabee · 19/05/2021 13:28

FYI government declined request to allow the “fans” to celebrate at Ibrox. I get it’s against covid rules but seriously would this not have been a better idea?! (Obviously cancelling the whole thing would have been even better).

news.stv.tv/west-central/bid-for-10000-fans-at-ibrox-trophy-lift-rejected-by-government

thedevilinablackdress · 19/05/2021 13:48

With hindsight it absolutely work have been a better option. But allowing a big celebratory gathering when so much else is not allowed would have liked really bad.
Ideally, the SG would have said 'we're letting them do this because they can't be trusted out in public'.

thedevilinablackdress · 19/05/2021 13:48

bah typos

DeclineandFall · 19/05/2021 13:52

I was talking to DH about the fans at Ibrox thing at lunchtime. Firstly they couldn't get away with letting them break covid rules just for football. Secondly they would probably just have left Ibrox and carried on into town. It was just have been the pre party party.

Bloodypunkrockers · 19/05/2021 14:34

@Quincie

My point is that it can be seen as divisive if people choose the better Catholic school rather than the local comp. Especially if you are a C of S minister! As if your too good to mix with others
That's true. But placing requests make that true of any school
Yakkabee · 19/05/2021 14:46

20k fans were at the FA cup final on the same day.. 12k will be allowed inside Hampden in three weeks time. Still seems a bit crazy to me to go for 15k outside, unmonitored with a police escort to George Sq over allowing 10k monitored inside the stadium/contained to that part of city. Granted some may have still spilled out and gone into town/caused chaos anyway but personally I think it would’ve helped. If nothing else, to separate the real fans from the hooligans.

“Couldn’t get away with letting them breach rules just for football”. You serious? League allowed to continue when everything else was cancelled. Allowed to continue through multiple players breaching the rules, the first George sq fiasco, the Celtic park demonstrations...league allowed to go ahead again and again. Seems nothing could stop football, they could at least have owned their decision to enable this shambles with taking measures to try and contain it.

MorrisZapp · 19/05/2021 14:51

Dreadful behaviour, but no covid spikes anywhere worldwide have been traced to outdoor events.

Remember last year? Busy beaches causing mass death? It didn't happen. Didn't happen after BLM marches either. Covid doesn't care why you're gathering, as long as it's outdoors the risk is low.

Honeycombskl · 19/05/2021 14:59

People attend faith schools because, imv, they attract a more middle class clientele - true some are Christians but I'm sure it's more that they attract fewer rough children.
I'm guessing you don't live in Glasgow or the West Coast of Scotland then, because the Catholic schools I've taught in couldn't be any less middle class, particularly those I worked in in the east end of Glasgow. The phrase 'rough children' sits really uncomfortably with me too, that's an awful way to describe any child.

thedevilinablackdress · 19/05/2021 15:38

A potential Covid spike is just one of the things that concern me about Saturday MorrisZapp
Mainly I'm enraged about the violence, filth and destruction. Making people afraid to walk the streets or use public transport. Forcing businesses to close.
And Honeycombsk couldn't agree more. Rough children!!? Really ? Is it the 1980s again.

Morgan12 · 19/05/2021 15:44

Yep agree.

Not sure where Catholic schools have that reputation but it's absolutely not the case in West Central Scotland.

StarryEyeSurprise · 19/05/2021 16:04

@Quincie

My point is that it can be seen as divisive if people choose the better Catholic school rather than the local comp. Especially if you are a C of S minister! As if your too good to mix with others
'Others'? Catholic schools obviously have a Christian ethos. Are you in Scotland? Anyone can send their children to them.
forfucksakenett · 19/05/2021 16:35

How on earth did a thread bemoaning the vile behaviour of some Rangers fans turn into a discussion about the appropriateness of catholic schools?

Weird. It's almost as if anti catholic bigotry might be ingrained in our society and culture.

OP posts:
Solasta · 19/05/2021 16:48

It's twofold from what I can see.

Rangers fan always hark back to "celtic fans would have acted no different", non supporters of either treats say "they both are as bad as each other", Celtic fans dispute this and give the background and history and then the discussion goes round in circles.

Rangers fans acted in a horrific way. Celtic fans have got a reputation for being just as bad so the conversation never changes.

Both sets of fans are pretty hideous at times and half the people out there fighting one another don't even know where it all started because they are too bloody stupid to care. Anything for a piss up and a scrap.

charliebrown59 · 19/05/2021 17:04

I see Janey Godley has tweeted a photo of rangers fans, some of whom have union jacks, and saying she's never experienced any anti English sentiment.

I wish people would focus on the football violence, the hate speech, and stop hanging broader points off it.

It's not even the first of such things I've seen.

ParkheadParadise · 19/05/2021 17:25

People attend faith schools because, imv, they attract a more middle class clientele - true some are Christians but I'm sure it's more that they attract fewer rough children

Aye, right
ConfusedConfused
How did this thread go from Rangers fans to Catholic schools?

Albless · 19/05/2021 17:27

@Quincie

My point is that it can be seen as divisive if people choose the better Catholic school rather than the local comp. Especially if you are a C of S minister! As if your too good to mix with others
Hmm

Are you even in Scotland, Quincie? I can't think that I've ever heard anyone talking about the "local comp".

When my DS was ready for school we had the choice of two local primaries - one non-denominational and one RC. The first was a recent merger of two schools, about to incorporate a third, so something of an unknown quantity, we didn't know anyone whose children were at that school and it was a 15 minute walk away. The other, RC school, was well established, attended by the children of many friends and neighbours, two of whom also taught at the school so well known to us, and it was at the end of the road we lived on at the time. Catchment areas for both were broadly similar.

But anyway, even when I was an atheist, my preference was for a Catholic school because I liked the ethos.

By the time DS was at secondary school I had moved out of Glasgow - his DF and I are divorced - so he started secondary school - non-dom/"local comp" in a largely middle class area. Then I moved further afield, and DS chose to go back to school in Glasgow - to Holyrood which is in Govanhill. If you're not familiar with that area of Glasgow I can assure you that "middle class clientele" is not a phrase which would immediately leap to mind when thinking about Holyrood Secondary School! RC secondaries tend to have large catchment areas, so are more likely to be socially diverse than "local comps".

And anyway, this is a thread about the violent, criminal behaviour of Rangers fans. Why should Catholic schools be blamed for their thuggery? That makes no sense at all, but as pp has already pointed out, that's the way these discussions always seem to go.

Rangers fans are thugs so Catholic schools must be banned. Confused Eh, no!

StarryEyeSurprise · 19/05/2021 18:10

@Solasta

It's twofold from what I can see.

Rangers fan always hark back to "celtic fans would have acted no different", non supporters of either treats say "they both are as bad as each other", Celtic fans dispute this and give the background and history and then the discussion goes round in circles.

Rangers fans acted in a horrific way. Celtic fans have got a reputation for being just as bad so the conversation never changes.

Both sets of fans are pretty hideous at times and half the people out there fighting one another don't even know where it all started because they are too bloody stupid to care. Anything for a piss up and a scrap.

  1. I'm not a fan of either.
  2. They were not 'fighting each other '. The thugs were, as usual, wrecked on Buckfast and looking to batter others. As everyone else knew this and stayed away, they started battering each other.