Feel depressed about the future

[Hobnob39]

The election results have made me feel really bluuuuerrgh.
I HATED the divisiveness of indyref1, I don't want another referendum. I want our government to do a better day job, but independence is going to be the focus until it happens now isn't it? I don't want independence for the same reasons I didn't want Brexit - I feel we shouldn't be dividing ourselves off into ever smaller parochial wee groups who all think we are somehow better than everyone else. It's enough to make me want to move... my DH is English and he wants to, but I have resisted, but it's getting harder to explain why. The only problem I have though is that I see the results in England and feel they as bad - I don't understand why people who are shafted by the Tory party are the ones voting for them! I just do know where I belong now. It feels to me that Scotland is stuck with SNP and England stuck with Tory, and I'm adrift as I don't feel either represent me. Anyone else?

Sure there was approx 38,000 more votes for pro union parties. I believe that prior to the last referendum in 2014 the margin for pro union parties was much higher. SNP have gained in popularity since then. Always gaining never losing. In the last year many polls had independence come out top. Another year of campaigning and making the case will, in my opinion, see independence come out on top.

You cannot extrapolate referendum results from an election.

I Lived in Scotland all my adult life till recently, so was there in indyref. And you are right, it was just awful, the division, the hatred, the aggression, the sense of threat. People too scared to say they would vote no. I did door knocking campaigning and people were scared to speak to us, would quickly look up and down the street to see if anyone was looking and then quickly say, 'I'm voting no;' and shut the door. I never thought I would see such intimidation in an election in the UK. I thought it shamed Scotland if I am honest. It brought to the fore all I fear about nationalism.

Don't live there now and I really miss Scotland but would not return there whilst all this is going on.

I really feel for you all.

Democratically, the majority of votes were cast for non independence parties.

So the makeup of Parliament does not reflect the views of the voters.

@musingloud

I Lived in Scotland all my adult life till recently, so was there in indyref. And you are right, it was just awful, the division, the hatred, the aggression, the sense of threat. People too scared to say they would vote no. I did door knocking campaigning and people were scared to speak to us, would quickly look up and down the street to see if anyone was looking and then quickly say, 'I'm voting no;' and shut the door. I never thought I would see such intimidation in an election in the UK. I thought it shamed Scotland if I am honest. It brought to the fore all I fear about nationalism.

Don't live there now and I really miss Scotland but would not return there whilst all this is going on.

I really feel for you all.

Yes and I remember George Square the night of the results.

Hordes of drunk and furious Union Jack waving thugs giving Nazi Salutes and throwing things at the windows of the restaurants. Abusing the yes voters and shouting at young girls. Bizarre given they had 'won'.

@forfucksakenett

Sure there was approx 38,000 more votes for pro union parties. I believe that prior to the last referendum in 2014 the margin for pro union parties was much higher. SNP have gained in popularity since then. Always gaining never losing. In the last year many polls had independence come out top. Another year of campaigning and making the case will, in my opinion, see independence come out on top.

You cannot extrapolate referendum results from an election.

Always gaining? That's patently not true is it. They had a majority at one point and lost it.

@WouldBeGood

Democratically, the majority of votes were cast for non independence parties.

So the makeup of Parliament does not reflect the views of the voters.

Which system would you like @WouldBeGood? I'm crap with numbers but read on Twitter that had we used the same system as Westminster then the SNP would have returned even more seats? I can't go with the veracity of that statement but it was an English journalist. I'll need to see if I can find it.

More votes than they've ever had ... I would call that a gain for the party overall.

I was just about to write that. I had the misfortune of having to at the top end of George Sq and was shouted at so aggressively by a union jack wearing thug that I turned round and got a taxi home from work instead of the subway. It was terrifying. They were beating people up and yes, the disgusting nazi salutes whilst singing Rule Britannia.

@WouldBeGood

Democratically, the majority of votes were cast for non independence parties.

So the makeup of Parliament does not reflect the views of the voters.

But it was always going to be like that. SNP and their lapdog Greens will a majority of seats - clear mandate for a second referendum.

Had it gone the other way and they hadn't got a majority but still had 50.0000001% of the vote, that would also be a clear mandate for a second referendum.

Ask three people on a night out in Dundee who are all in favour of independence - clear mandate for a second referendum.

However, as others have said, the results in this election are very much not a referendum but do show that there is no clear majority for independence. In fact, it'd be fair to say that percentages probably haven't changed so much since 2014. And when Covid passes and we're not "treated" to the daily spectacle of Ms Sturgeon behind her wee lectern telling us "just because you can doesn't mean you should" then the ideas about handling the pandemic well will fade. People, hopefully, will realise that the furlough scheme and the super-swift vaccination rollout from the UK government are more important long-term than pissing about with tiers and forbidding you from leaving your Council area.

@StarryEyeSurprise

I was just about to write that. I had the misfortune of having to at the top end of George Sq and was shouted at so aggressively by a union jack wearing thug that I turned round and got a taxi home from work instead of the subway. It was terrifying. They were beating people up and yes, the disgusting nazi salutes whilst singing Rule Britannia.

Yet you still maintain that it was all positive and lovely?!🙄

It was vile, terrible behaviour on both sides. An experience I do not want to go through again.

Hordes of drunk and furious Union Jack waving thugs giving Nazi Salutes and throwing things at the windows of the restaurants. Abusing the yes voters and shouting at young girls. Bizarre given they had 'won'

Oh come on - you are talking about the bloody sectarian orange order element. The most extreme of the extreme.

I am talking about people too scared to have their neighbours know how they are voting. I am talking about people too scared to put No posters in their window for fear of getting a brick thrown through it. And I am talking in the leafiest and most affluent suburbs too. Clearly Yes voters, given by the sheer number of yes posters seen, had no such concerns. I am talking about unionist campaigners being chased off the street. Posters torn down as soon as they went up. This was ordinary everyday stuff, everyday threat, for unionist supporters throughout the campaign. You have had to resort to one night in one place from the most fringe element left over from the Troubles in northern Ireland to make a counter claim!
The fact you have had to resort to such extremes just undermines your case.

@forfucksakenett my point was really just that it’s clear that most people don’t want independence although the voting system means the Parliament doesn’t reflect that.

Undermines my case?

For every story you have of a no voter feeling intimidated by a neighbour there will be one on the flip side of the coin. These thugs have neighbours and employees and colleagues too. How often did the Yes bar in Glasgow have its windows smashed? I remember watching a group of young guys shouting abuse at a teenage girl wearing a Yes t shirt in broad daylight on Buchanan street. Apparently she was a stupid fenian cunt.

A disgusting display of 100s and 100s of mostly drunk men waving the union jack and celebrating nazi culture and I'm not supposed to mention it. Okay then.

Unionists have a toxic element and it's not just confined to the orange order which are actually fairly large in number and not an extremist fringe group.

[quote WouldBeGood]@forfucksakenett my point was really just that it’s clear that most people don’t want independence although the voting system means the Parliament doesn’t reflect that.[/quote]
38,000 more votes for unionist parties I believe? I wouldn't say that's all that clear. Especially when we consider a referendum would be what at least a year and half?

Knife edge would be more accurate.

@musingloud

Hordes of drunk and furious Union Jack waving thugs giving Nazi Salutes and throwing things at the windows of the restaurants. Abusing the yes voters and shouting at young girls. Bizarre given they had 'won'

Oh come on - you are talking about the bloody sectarian orange order element. The most extreme of the extreme.

I am talking about people too scared to have their neighbours know how they are voting. I am talking about people too scared to put No posters in their window for fear of getting a brick thrown through it. And I am talking in the leafiest and most affluent suburbs too. Clearly Yes voters, given by the sheer number of yes posters seen, had no such concerns. I am talking about unionist campaigners being chased off the street. Posters torn down as soon as they went up. This was ordinary everyday stuff, everyday threat, for unionist supporters throughout the campaign. You have had to resort to one night in one place from the most fringe element left over from the Troubles in northern Ireland to make a counter claim!
The fact you have had to resort to such extremes just undermines your case.

What if your neighbours are the orange order element though?

Do you think they all came from some other country or something?

It was the same for yes voters where I am, except we also go them parading the streets and throwing bricks and destroying any yes things for hours afterwards regularly in the run up to the vote as well... and groups of them chanting no surrender outside the polling station while it was actually happening.

I mean in fairness they weren’t shouting no surrender when I went to vote, it was some weird nonsense about no letting them get rid of the kind for money with Alec salmond’s face on it

But it was still pretty intimidating...

Total agree @musingloud, I live in one of the aforementioned leafy suburbs and nobody put NO posters in their windows, even though this area overwhelmingly voted to remain in the UK. People absolutely were scared of getting a brick through their window or abuse from campaigners in the street.

If you don't want independence you're "Anti-Scottish" says their top health adviser Ms Sridhar.

@forfucksakenett

Sure there was approx 38,000 more votes for pro union parties. I believe that prior to the last referendum in 2014 the margin for pro union parties was much higher. SNP have gained in popularity since then. Always gaining never losing. In the last year many polls had independence come out top. Another year of campaigning and making the case will, in my opinion, see independence come out on top.

You cannot extrapolate referendum results from an election.

People conflating the two are forgetting that a large minority of Labour voters support independence. There's also LibDem and Tory voters that support independence. Likewise there's SNP and Green voters who don't. It's daft to try and argue that this election result = what people think about Independence.

Besides which, we live in a parliamentary democracy where numbers of seats dictate mandates. Tories have a majority of 80 seats, where's the uproar that they only have 43.7% of the total vote? We had a Brexit vote brought to us by a 36.9% share of the vote.

No one has had a larger share of the vote than the SNP now has in any election in the UK since 1966, so why hasn't my lifetime been one where it has been a major issue? Or does it only matter when the SNP win?

[quote WouldBeGood]@forfucksakenett my point was really just that it’s clear that most people don’t want independence although the voting system means the Parliament doesn’t reflect that.[/quote]
Looking forward to you campaigning for a change in voting systems throughout the UK since most people don't get the government they want. If SP elections were FPTP then you'd really have something to moan about as 80% of seats would be SNP.

Apparently she was a stupid fenian cunt

Well exactly, that's my point. You are talking about sectarianism and how the existing sectarian element got caught up in all this.

You are talking about sectarians being thuggish ( not a surprise).

I am talking about scottish nationalists being thuggish. And they were. And we all know it.

@musingloud

I'll repeat. The sectarian element (nice way of sanitising it btw) are actual real life people who vote, who have neighbours, colleagues and friends and in lots of cases employees.

They aren't trotted out of a cupboard for their orange walks. They are functioning members of our society.

Their numbers are not few either. They are not some weird fringe group of a hundred people who live separately from society.

@musingloud

Apparently she was a stupid fenian cunt

Well exactly, that's my point. You are talking about sectarianism and how the existing sectarian element got caught up in all this.

You are talking about sectarians being thuggish ( not a surprise).

I am talking about scottish nationalists being thuggish. And they were. And we all know it.

What all Scottish nationalists? Really?

I get that it's sectarianism but they are also unionists.

I would certainly never tar the whole unionist movement with their actions as I'm sure you wouldn't with any yes thugs.

Still, I have never had personal experience of a yes thug and not have I seen them rampage around George square the way the unionists did but hey ho.

“They aren't trotted out of a cupboard for their orange walks. They are functioning members of our society.

Their numbers are not few either. They are not some weird fringe group of a hundred people who live separately from society.”

Well I suspect it’s not a coincidence that the ones outside the polling station weren’t arrested, just moved on repeatedly... and that the police seemed to know their names