Feel depressed about the future

[Hobnob39]

The election results have made me feel really bluuuuerrgh.
I HATED the divisiveness of indyref1, I don't want another referendum. I want our government to do a better day job, but independence is going to be the focus until it happens now isn't it? I don't want independence for the same reasons I didn't want Brexit - I feel we shouldn't be dividing ourselves off into ever smaller parochial wee groups who all think we are somehow better than everyone else. It's enough to make me want to move... my DH is English and he wants to, but I have resisted, but it's getting harder to explain why. The only problem I have though is that I see the results in England and feel they as bad - I don't understand why people who are shafted by the Tory party are the ones voting for them! I just do know where I belong now. It feels to me that Scotland is stuck with SNP and England stuck with Tory, and I'm adrift as I don't feel either represent me. Anyone else?

@Lidlfix

Where I live there was absolutely a rise in sectarian abuse from those who would link themselves to Ulster Unionists rather than being against Scottish Independence.

The debate fired them up and freed them Orange Walks and lodges as they were now discussing politics not being bigots.

I'm sure the pupils wearing the Catholic school uniform who were abused verbally by passing adults didn't feel like it was a political discussion.

Just because you didn't see it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

There are repulsive bigots on both sides.

Before the independence campaign it wasn’t even something that was hugely on my radar as being an issue here tbh.

The walks were slightly annoying and seemed random because I’d moved here from the west coast and other than the walks it all seemed like a non issue here.

Till the campaigning started and suddenly it was everywhere.

@RaspberryCoulis I've yet to see someone make a moral case for voting Tory so I think that anyone who votes anything else, apart from the obvious racist parties, does have the moral high ground.

@Graffitiqueen we don't need all of you to change your mind. Just some. And just because you won't doesn't mean that others won't

@Lidlfix

Where I live there was absolutely a rise in sectarian abuse from those who would link themselves to Ulster Unionists rather than being against Scottish Independence.

The debate fired them up and freed them Orange Walks and lodges as they were now discussing politics not being bigots.

I'm sure the pupils wearing the Catholic school uniform who were abused verbally by passing adults didn't feel like it was a political discussion.

Just because you didn't see it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

There are repulsive bigots on both sides.

I'm from a Catholic Unionist background I can tell you honestly I've only found "repulsive bigots" on one side and it wasn't the Unionist side.

@Lidlfix

Where I live there was absolutely a rise in sectarian abuse from those who would link themselves to Ulster Unionists rather than being against Scottish Independence.

The debate fired them up and freed them Orange Walks and lodges as they were now discussing politics not being bigots.

I'm sure the pupils wearing the Catholic school uniform who were abused verbally by passing adults didn't feel like it was a political discussion.

Just because you didn't see it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

There are repulsive bigots on both sides.

Absolutely.

I have no evidence that anything about independence will make things any better.

[quote forfucksakenett]@RaspberryCoulis I've yet to see someone make a moral case for voting Tory so I think that anyone who votes anything else, apart from the obvious racist parties, does have the moral high ground. [/quote]
And welcome to the oh so tolerant and inclusive new people's socialist democratic republic of Alba. All views welcome except the views the separatists disapprove of.

I don't know what people expected, Tories?

@WouldBeGood

I have no evidence that anything about independence will make things any better.

All evidence points to exactly the opposite.

Yes op, I feel politically adrift too. So depressed at the idea of another independence referendum. We are in the middle of a pandemic, ffs! We need to recover and rebuild from this first. Fwiw, I don't think this election is a particularly convincing mandate for a referendum - but then I would say this being anti independence!

@MissBarbary my disliking the Tories doesn't make them unwelcome. Being a Tory is a perfectly valid view, it's one that I personally find repulsive but I have no power and no influence over anyone other than myself so what I think is irrelevant.

I'm flattered though that you feel I am more powerful than I am and will somehow be a gatekeeper for an independent Scotland.

[quote forfucksakenett]@Graffitiqueen we don't need all of you to change your mind. Just some. And just because you won't doesn't mean that others won't [/quote]
And there's no evidence that the nats are making any headway whatsoever. Now with the oil price, the economic situation, the potential of a border with England, and many other things being worse than in 2014 I can't see that changing. 🙂

Sorry for anyone feeling depressed at the Scot Parl election results...but look at the election results down south!! 😱. One thing is clear - the UK (England) are not going to seek to rejoin the EU anytime soon... the SNP and the Scottish greens both want to rejoin...that gives me hope.

They don't need to be making any headway just now. The campaign hadn't started yet and a referendum hasn't even been announced. Think of the headway they made last time.

@forfucksakenett

They don't need to be making any headway just now. The campaign hadn't started yet and a referendum hasn't even been announced. Think of the headway they made last time.

😂🙄The campaign has never stopped!!

@Graffitiqueen that's really not accurate. You only need to look at the disgruntled SNP supporters to know that's the case.

Independence may well have been mentioned but it has been far from a campaign.

And given that we're told that brexit is a material change in position therefore we must have a referendum now, I can't see that anything has shifted in any major way. Can you?

I'm not sure what you mean. Could you be a little clearer?

@Lidlfix

Where I live there was absolutely a rise in sectarian abuse from those who would link themselves to Ulster Unionists rather than being against Scottish Independence.

The debate fired them up and freed them Orange Walks and lodges as they were now discussing politics not being bigots.

I'm sure the pupils wearing the Catholic school uniform who were abused verbally by passing adults didn't feel like it was a political discussion.

Just because you didn't see it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

There are repulsive bigots on both sides.

Umm, that's exactly my point. The examples you are citing are all about sectarian unionists. There is a particular and specific cultural context to them. The more you keep going on about this example the more you show how niche it was.

Its was a wide sweep of nationalists who caused intimidation and aggression to no voters. Its not like Indy ref caused nice suburban degree educated union supporters to start openly telling independence supporters that they deserve to be drown in a river. It did cause yes voters to behave like this though. I never thought I would see the like. I never saw tv footage of unionists chasing independence seeking politicians from the streets when they tried to speak in public.
Nationalists called for the referendum and set the tone of intimidation.

If no voters were really so furious about brexit and had changed their mind on Indy like we're told, then surely Nicola should have regained the majority that prompted indyref in the first place. In reality very little has changed since the first referendum.

I feel the same. Years of Nicola behaving like a Rottweiler insisting everyone wants independence. I’m moving back to England if Scotland gets independence.

@musingloud I don't know where you live so perhaps that explains why you can't see this but it's not in any way niche. At least it's not in Glasgow and the West. The orange lodge has a huge official and unofficial following that is far from small. The identities are connected and of course not every unionist is a religious bigot but the numbers of the bigots are not in any way small.

I want aware that happened! What politician was chased by nationalists? This one passsd me by.

@mermaidsariel

I feel the same. Years of Nicola behaving like a Rottweiler insisting everyone wants independence. I’m moving back to England if Scotland gets independence.

There's a thread about that. It might give you some ideas and help about where to move to. It's very sad that you feel that way but I do understand. If we hadn't had this second chance I would have perhaps felt compelled to think about moving.

I'm not sure though that she has insisted everyone wants independence. She has repeatedly said that it's up to the people of Scotland to decide.

@Graffitiqueen

If no voters were really so furious about brexit and had changed their mind on Indy like we're told, then surely Nicola should have regained the majority that prompted indyref in the first place. In reality very little has changed since the first referendum.

I'm still not sure I'm following.

I would assume, given the general political and social demographic of no voters, that a good chunk of the original no vote voted for brexit. They still won't want independence and won't care that we have brexit.

Some of course would be angry but resigned to it. For many brexit won't be enough to shift them from unionist to wanting independence.

I think brexit is still a material change and as I have said many times you can't extrapolate results for indyref2 which will be what ? Maybe two years down the line, from this election.

When the first campaign started I think support for independence was at 27% or something. They got it up 45%. There will be another campaign and if our starting point is about 49% this time then I'm confident it can be pushed over the line.

And we did decide. We said no in 2014. She hasn't gained a majority in this election. The majority of Scotland have spoken and not in favour of independence.