Page 3 | Feel depressed about the future

Hobnob39 · 2021-05-08T22:15:15+00:00

The election results have made me feel really bluuuuerrgh. I HATED the divisiveness of indyref1, I don't want another referendum. I want our government to do a better day job, but independence is going to be the focus until it happens now isn't it? I don't want independence for the same reasons I didn't want Brexit - I feel we shouldn't be dividing ourselves off into ever smaller parochial wee groups who all think we are somehow better than everyone else. It's enough to make me want to move... my DH is English and he wants to, but I have resisted, but it's getting harder to explain why. The only problem I have though is that I see the results in England and feel they as bad - I don't understand why people who are shafted by the Tory party are the ones voting for them! [sad] I just do know where I belong now. It feels to me that Scotland is stuck with SNP and England stuck with Tory, and I'm adrift as I don't feel either represent me. Anyone else?

tabulahrasa · 09/05/2021 11:25

“I think people voted for NS with no desire for Indy but because the feel (bizarrely in my view) pleased with her handling Covid. “

Did they though?

I see a lot of people online saying that lots of SNP or Green voters don’t want independence... I don’t see many people saying that about themselves though, and I’ve never met anyone in RL who votes for them without also saying one of the reasons is that they’re pro-independence.

WouldBeGood · 09/05/2021 11:27

Further devolution of powers would solve the problems without the devastating impact of independence.

Scotland would then be responsible for its own governance on all the issues that they blame WM for currently.

Yes, they couldn’t join the EU, but this a a long shot anyway. Particularly as NS has once again stated they’ll use sterling for many years. This means we won’t have control of our currency nor a central bank so won’t be able to join.

Graffitiqueen · 09/05/2021 11:29

I know loads of people who voted no, are opposed to a second referendum but vote SNP as there's no alternative in their view.

Look at the polling among green voters, most are voting on environmental reasons and less than half support Indy.

I'm similarly depressed OP. Bit looking at the figures if this election was seen as a proxy referendum then yes lost. They didn't get over 50% of the votes.

Despite all their bluster the more intelligent in the SNP know this. Will be interesting to see their next move.

RaspberryCoulis · 09/05/2021 11:30

@user1493494961

I read an article that should the SNP win a referendum, Shetland would campaign for their own referendum to become a UK Crown dependency (and keep the oil revenues).

And they should absolutely have the right to do so, according to Ms Sturgeon's own logic.

tabulahrasa · 09/05/2021 11:31

@WouldBeGood

Further devolution of powers would solve the problems without the devastating impact of independence.

Scotland would then be responsible for its own governance on all the issues that they blame WM for currently.

Yes, they couldn’t join the EU, but this a a long shot anyway. Particularly as NS has once again stated they’ll use sterling for many years. This means we won’t have control of our currency nor a central bank so won’t be able to join.

It could have been put to bed pretty much forever if there had been proper devolution options in the last referendum

WouldBeGood · 09/05/2021 11:36

I do agree with that @tabulahrasa

Graffitiqueen · 09/05/2021 11:44

I disagree. There's an element of the separatist movement that is anti English and nothing but full separation would be enough for them.

WouldBeGood · 09/05/2021 11:49

It’s true that the SNP rejected having control of benefits.

tabulahrasa · 09/05/2021 11:51

@Graffitiqueen

I disagree. There's an element of the separatist movement that is anti English and nothing but full separation would be enough for them.

Yes there’s some people that would always push for full independence.

But a whole load of people are more in the middle, without their support, it wouldn’t be a big enough movement to be actually doing anything.

Graffitiqueen · 09/05/2021 11:56

Still disagree. The Scottish parliament was supposed to put all this to bed and all it provided was a platform for separatists. It was a slippery slope and further devolution would provide more of a lever for them.

WouldBeGood · 09/05/2021 11:57

But the only argument I ever really see for the benefits of Indy is that we’d escape Tory rule.

forfucksakenett · 09/05/2021 12:01

@Graffitiqueen heaven forbid it would provide a platform for separatists?! What? People with a different opinion to you? That's just not the democrat act we signed up for!

forfucksakenett · 09/05/2021 12:02

@WouldBeGood

It’s true that the SNP rejected having control of benefits.

Do you have a link for this? Widely touted on MN but never with evidence.

Graffitiqueen · 09/05/2021 12:06

[quote forfucksakenett]@Graffitiqueen heaven forbid it would provide a platform for separatists?! What? People with a different opinion to you? That's just not the democrat act we signed up for!
[/quote]
If you truly cared about democracy you would accept that the will of the people is not separation as shown in 2014 and in this latest election where separatists didn't get over 50% of the vote despite all their gerrymandering.

forfucksakenett · 09/05/2021 12:09

2014 was a while ago now. An awful lot has changed. If that's your logic why do we bother with general elections then?

The Scottish people have returned a government with a majority of pro independence msps. That's a mandate for another referendum. Giving the people a say is the heart of a democracy is it not? You can't extrapolate an independence referendum result from an election.

forfucksakenett · 09/05/2021 12:11

Howling that me wanting people to engage in a democratic vote to determine the future of their country is me not caring about democracy! 🤯🤣 only on Scotsnet.

LizzieMacQueen · 09/05/2021 12:12

It's the one way nature of an independence result though that worries most @forfucksakenett, at least with a GE you get another chance to vote 4 years on.

Graffitiqueen · 09/05/2021 12:14

So in an election where it was seen as an indication of appetite for a referendum, less than 50% votes in favour, yet they're pushing for another referendum. Democracy my fucking arse.

Graffitiqueen · 09/05/2021 12:16

@forfucksakenett

2014 was a while ago now. An awful lot has changed. If that's your logic why do we bother with general elections then?

The Scottish people have returned a government with a majority of pro independence msps. That's a mandate for another referendum. Giving the people a say is the heart of a democracy is it not? You can't extrapolate an independence referendum result from an election.

You really can't tell the difference between an election and a referendum on constitutional change. Yes your brains really have been blown.

Graffitiqueen · 09/05/2021 12:18

@forfucksakenett

2014 was a while ago now. An awful lot has changed. If that's your logic why do we bother with general elections then?

The Scottish people have returned a government with a majority of pro independence msps. That's a mandate for another referendum. Giving the people a say is the heart of a democracy is it not? You can't extrapolate an independence referendum result from an election.

I would say that looking at votes cast rather than seats gained is a far better indicator. Do you admit that more than 50% votes for pro uk parties?

RaraRachael · 09/05/2021 12:19

I can't bear the thought of another referendum Last time we had SNP supporters criticising a local shop owner just because she had a visit from a prominent Conservative - threats to burn down her shop, harm her family etc etc.

Yet if a prominent SNP politician visited a business, no-one from the other parties said a word.

Says a lot about SNP supporters

I'd really like to see NS call another referendum and lose it again. Maybe that would shut her up.

flippertygibbit · 09/05/2021 12:19

Absolutely gutted. Funnily enough we had the moving south conversation last night. DP has already lost his job through CV, mine is on the rocks so nothing to lose now.

forfucksakenett · 09/05/2021 12:19

I am aware that they are different but the principle behind them, the idea of democratic participation, is exactly the same.

We have elections regularly to take account of material changes in society and to allow us to voice our opinions as a result. There has been significant material change since 2014 and that opens the referendum process back up to us. Same principle.

flippertygibbit · 09/05/2021 12:20

@RaraRachael

I can't bear the thought of another referendum Last time we had SNP supporters criticising a local shop owner just because she had a visit from a prominent Conservative - threats to burn down her shop, harm her family etc etc.

Yet if a prominent SNP politician visited a business, no-one from the other parties said a word.

Says a lot about SNP supporters

I'd really like to see NS call another referendum and lose it again. Maybe that would shut her up.

We actually never told anyone we were No voters the hatred was so intense. FF 7 years and none of our friends voted SNP.

forfucksakenett · 09/05/2021 12:20

@RaraRachael

I can't bear the thought of another referendum Last time we had SNP supporters criticising a local shop owner just because she had a visit from a prominent Conservative - threats to burn down her shop, harm her family etc etc.

Yet if a prominent SNP politician visited a business, no-one from the other parties said a word.

Says a lot about SNP supporters

I'd really like to see NS call another referendum and lose it again. Maybe that would shut her up.

Well I hope that the police were involved.