Feel depressed about the future

[Hobnob39]

The election results have made me feel really bluuuuerrgh.
I HATED the divisiveness of indyref1, I don't want another referendum. I want our government to do a better day job, but independence is going to be the focus until it happens now isn't it? I don't want independence for the same reasons I didn't want Brexit - I feel we shouldn't be dividing ourselves off into ever smaller parochial wee groups who all think we are somehow better than everyone else. It's enough to make me want to move... my DH is English and he wants to, but I have resisted, but it's getting harder to explain why. The only problem I have though is that I see the results in England and feel they as bad - I don't understand why people who are shafted by the Tory party are the ones voting for them! I just do know where I belong now. It feels to me that Scotland is stuck with SNP and England stuck with Tory, and I'm adrift as I don't feel either represent me. Anyone else?

I remember fondly my 'clubbing' days, as much as it was clubbing on a wee island in the 80s. We always finished the night with a drunken Gay Gordons!

Good times.

Renfrewshire Council gave the schools a holiday on Saint Andrews day, or thereabouts if it fell on a weekend. Didn't realise it was just local holiday but of course that would make sense considering in service days and the like

@Applesky

Renfrewshire Council gave the schools a holiday on Saint Andrews day, or thereabouts if it fell on a weekend. Didn't realise it was just local holiday but of course that would make sense considering in service days and the like

Thanks

@titsintiers - I agree - it is depressing isn't it? Having started this thread wondering if other people felt like me, clearly there are others out there so I don't feel quite so alone, which helps.... but then this thread also very clearly illustrates the bickering and divisions that I'm worried about..!

I see that no one who supports independence has addressed my comment regarding the fact that our country is so evenly divided that if a 'yes' votes does happen then you'll have close to half the population v unwillingly along for the ride, which is nothing like what has happened in other countries. Do you not think it would be more successful if more people agreed? Wouldn't the upheaval involved be easier if the great majority were happy about it?

“Do you not think it would be more successful if more people agreed? Wouldn't the upheaval involved be easier if the great majority were happy about it?”

Absolutely... I think last time and if/when there is another one, it should include devolution options and the bar should be higher than 50%, say 65% for independence seems better to me. But I don’t get to decide stuff like that... so...

I do think think the bar should be higher. 75% I think had been a precedent for massive decisions.

Then it’s clear it’s really what the people want.

I see that no one who supports independence has addressed my comment regarding the fact that our country is so evenly divided that if a 'yes' votes does happen then you'll have close to half the population v unwillingly along for the ride

In an ideal scenario there needs to be a cut off (no, I don't mean a 90% turnout with 80% in favour). However, we've had two recent UK wide referendums plus a previous independence referendum where there were no such caveats, so I think it would be dishonourable to introduce them now.

Where that leaves a very close result with YES over 50% I don't know. It will be one of the reasons Nicola Sturgeon didn't want another referendum until there was around 60% favourable polling. Unfortunately Brexit put paid to that, unfortunately, as it was definitely a change in circumstances.

Without Brexit, I would have been happy to wait a while as the political situation in the UK would have been rather more peaceful over the last few years.

Truthfully, I don't know what the answer is, OP.

To those suggesting cut offs like 65% and 75% - that would be incredibly unethical, considering we've had three referendums in recent years with no criteria whatsoever.

It might be what you'd like in order to keep the status quo, but it's not going to happen.

It has echoes of Northern Ireland to me. 50% of the population want one thing, 50% want the opposite.

I said the same on brexit and the 2014 one.,

@WouldBeGood

I said the same on brexit and the 2014 one.,

After 2014, do you think because it was fairly close, there should have been more appreciation of that and therefore increased devolution?

I think that would have settled a lot of people's thoughts on the question for some time.

More devolution may yet be the best solution to all this. It might even be what some of the SNP want.

@SixesAndEights

To those suggesting cut offs like 65% and 75% - that would be incredibly unethical, considering we've had three referendums in recent years with no criteria whatsoever.

It might be what you'd like in order to keep the status quo, but it's not going to happen.

I’m pro-independence...

I just think 50% is not a great number to decide on tbh. Also I don’t think it’s unethical to go, hmm... these past ones where we set it at 50% and it being close is still causing huge issues because half the country feels one way about something and half feels the other, maybe we should learn from that is unethical tbh.

Just because somethings been done that way before, doesn’t mean you can’t decide to do it differently.

@SixesAndEights I’m not opposed to more devolution at all. It might help with being able to have a government and country focussed on policies and not squabbling about the constitution.

So all for it.

Though I would like a bicameral system too.

@ATieLikeRichardGere

More devolution may yet be the best solution to all this. It might even be what some of the SNP want.

You could be right, however the enormous problem is that the day after the 2014 vote David Cameron came smirking out of Downing Street to announce EVEL and now the current UK government is doing its best to trample over devolution with its post-Brexit legislation that will not pass over previously EU legislative powers to the Scottish Gvmt. It's also talking of bypassing the Scottish Gvmt altogether and dealing with councils directly.

The UK Gvmt has handled things very badly over the last seven years. Things had no need to get to the point they're at right now.

@tabulahrasa

I agree with you completely about 50% being a terrible cut off. And I also agree that we need to learn from past referendums.

However, I do think that for a number of reasons, changing things now for a second independence referendum would be really confrontational if directed by the UK Gvmt, and be a provocative reminder of the 1979 referendum on devolution which wasn't a good example of the democratic process.

I'd be happy with increased devolution for the next few years - many, many people would be. Unfortunately, I don't feel it's on the cards.

@WouldBeGood

Though I would like a bicameral system too.

I think that could work in an independent Scotland, I haven't given it much thought tbh.

I don’t have a problem with the UK giving money directly to councils. The council tax freeze has gone on too long. Services are suffering.

“However, I do think that for a number of reasons, changing things now for a second independence referendum would be really confrontational if directed by the UK Gvmt, and be a provocative reminder of the 1979 referendum on devolution which wasn't a good example of the democratic process.”

That’d probably depend on who decided it IMO anyway.

I don’t think it’s hugely likely to happen though, 65% was literally just me going, seems like a better number to me like, high enough that it’s a comfortable majority without being so high that it’s completely ridiculous.

I too would like to see more investment in our communities from the UK Governments like the levelling up fund, bypassing the Scottish Government to allow councils to apply direct for capital projects.