Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Scotsnet

Welcome to Scotsnet - discuss all aspects of life in Scotland, including relocating, schools and local areas.

Feel depressed about the future

547 replies

Hobnob39 · 08/05/2021 23:15

The election results have made me feel really bluuuuerrgh.
I HATED the divisiveness of indyref1, I don't want another referendum. I want our government to do a better day job, but independence is going to be the focus until it happens now isn't it? I don't want independence for the same reasons I didn't want Brexit - I feel we shouldn't be dividing ourselves off into ever smaller parochial wee groups who all think we are somehow better than everyone else. It's enough to make me want to move... my DH is English and he wants to, but I have resisted, but it's getting harder to explain why. The only problem I have though is that I see the results in England and feel they as bad - I don't understand why people who are shafted by the Tory party are the ones voting for them! Sad I just do know where I belong now. It feels to me that Scotland is stuck with SNP and England stuck with Tory, and I'm adrift as I don't feel either represent me. Anyone else?

OP posts:
StarryEyeSurprise · 09/05/2021 22:30

@Graffitiqueen

SIOB! Ooh starry thought it was only us nasty no voters that insulted people?!?!
Grow up, seriously.
RaraRachael · 09/05/2021 23:17

@Movisoul

We've already rejected it! Not sure why we have to do it again!
Exactly. So much for a "Once in a generation vote". She will just keep banging on about it until she gets her own way Angry
Bytheloch · 09/05/2021 23:18

Footage on news today of NS being confronted by one of her supporters, he tells her it’s not fair that she said the election wasn’t about independence and so he voted for her. Now it’s all about independence, he thinks it’s not fair.
This tells you everything. Duping these naive voters who just wanted to say thanks for your Covid comms.🙈

SempreSuiGeneris · 09/05/2021 23:42

Starry the vast majority of UK QE is "QE for the people" by your definition. How do you think furlough works?

SempreSuiGeneris · 09/05/2021 23:53

Worth it just for Andrew Neil's Christmas jumper.
The current state of play afaik on the currency question. Independent but with no monetary policy. No ability to print money (or do QE) or set interest rates. Worse than being Greece within the Euro.

SempreSuiGeneris · 09/05/2021 23:58

BytheLoch that interview resonates with so many I know irl and Scotsnet posting in the run-up to the election. Lots of people who couldn't bring themselves not to give NS the benefit of the doubt whether due to fear of being mistaken for a Tory, lack of confidence in Labour despite liking Sarwar (Sir Keir is an out of touch joke), gratitude for the daily briefing, sympathy for having to deal with Alex Salmond etc etc etc.

Quincie · 10/05/2021 06:36

Watching the interview it reminds me of the pro Brexiteers like Gove and Farage - just determined to get free of Brussels, no future plan and no real justification except ancient grudges.
I wonder if you will have to choose which passport you have - like Ireland.

WorkWorkAngelica · 10/05/2021 06:51

Finance jobs will move. By thousand. They will disappear. Finance/investment companies rely on stability and are heavily regulated. They have already said they cannot operate in an independent Scotland. That includes thousands of very well paid jobs paying literally tens of millions in tax. In that sector alone. I can't believe the naivety of people thinking jobs won't be lost in their tens of thousands and not replaced. Property will crash as everyone tries to sell and there's no one earning the money to buy the houses.

On a personal level that would involve a move for our family, as my DH in finance us the major earner in our house. I'd have to give up my job, which is in Scots law, so that would be the end of my career. Much worse would be moving away from our families, particularly our parents, just as they reach old age. So yeah. I'm really fucking depressed at the thought of independence. Personal and country-wide.

Dentistlakes · 10/05/2021 07:04

I feel the same too op. NS will never stop banging on about another referendum, like a dog with a bloody bone. It’s like Groundhog Day.

Iwouldratherbesailing · 10/05/2021 07:07

This gives an interesting flavour of how things could pan out. This is Ireland after the financial crisis trying to shave £4bn off its budget. An independent Scotland would have to save 3 x a they to make up for losing the Barnett formula alone. Factor in the lack of trade with England, uk government and other jobs being withdrawn then the currency problems things could be 10 xs worse. www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2009/dec/11/ireland-public-sector-pay-cuts

It’s those employed by the state and those on state benefits that will suffer most.

StarryEyeSurprise · 10/05/2021 07:18

@WorkWorkAngelica

Finance jobs will move. By thousand. They will disappear. Finance/investment companies rely on stability and are heavily regulated. They have already said they cannot operate in an independent Scotland. That includes thousands of very well paid jobs paying literally tens of millions in tax. In that sector alone. I can't believe the naivety of people thinking jobs won't be lost in their tens of thousands and not replaced. Property will crash as everyone tries to sell and there's no one earning the money to buy the houses.

On a personal level that would involve a move for our family, as my DH in finance us the major earner in our house. I'd have to give up my job, which is in Scots law, so that would be the end of my career. Much worse would be moving away from our families, particularly our parents, just as they reach old age. So yeah. I'm really fucking depressed at the thought of independence. Personal and country-wide.

This is simply not true. I worked in investments in '14. Processed funds held all over the world - San Francisco, Australia, NY, Cayman Islands. Jobs can be done anywhere.
WorkWorkAngelica · 10/05/2021 07:23

I wish with every fibre of my being that you were right StarryEyedSurprise. I really truly do, then my life would not implode upon a yes vote. Sadly, it is not the case. Finance jobs will move. There are already contingencies in place to make this happen smoothly should it be required.

WorkWorkAngelica · 10/05/2021 07:29

hsfnotes.com/policymatters/2021/04/29/scottish-independence-implications-for-financial-services/

This sets out some of the many challenges facing an investment company trying to stay in Scotland during a transitional to independence.

Iwouldratherbesailing · 10/05/2021 07:30

My husbands finance job can be done anywhere, and Covid has shown my employer that my job can be done from home, so we would choose to move to rUK. Other finance jobs aren’t so flexible and some of those will move.

SempreSuiGeneris · 10/05/2021 07:38

Funds processing is already streamlining and centralising out of Scotland and has been for a long time. This has accelerated recently. Back office operations currently in would very likely relocate to any number of Northern English towns about to be "levelled up". Scotland wouldn't even benefit from any post Brexit / pandemic move to onshore (not that Brexit has in fact slowed the offshoring of this sort of work to Poland etc. My personal experience is that the preferred option for both the EU staff and the UK businesses is for the jobs rather than the staff to relocate).

WouldBeGood · 10/05/2021 07:44

@Movisoul

All those so blasé about the economics - why would you be so sure you want independence without actually seeing the case for it first? Nationalism in itself is pretty nasty and small-minded. People in Scotland have cultural and family ties with the rest of the UK - we aren't "other". We have a fantastic standard of living in the UK compared to lots of the world (not all the world but relatively speaking, we are doing brilliantly in quality of life) as well as compared to past generations. Why would we upset that? It's not going to be any better than the status quo - not the land of milk and honey and certain to be pretty painful with huge job losses and economic upset. But loads of people are just blindly nationalistic. Yet they detest those in their own country who disagree with them, so it's not a big united country is it?! What is the point?
@Movisoul I was thinking this this morning.

Why on earth would one decide to support independence without seeing the case for it?

nancywhitehead · 10/05/2021 07:54

I find it depressing that places like Hartlepool are voting Tory when they are the very places that are screwed over by them

I agree :(

Also if they have another referendum on Scotland they are hypocrites as they didn't allow another referendum on Brexit??

They said it was once in a generation so they shouldn't be having another so soon just because she thinks it might now swing the other way.

WorkWorkAngelica · 10/05/2021 08:05

The other issue with financial services is that uncertainty is extremely bad news. Investors require messaging and marketing strategies when a fund manager leaves/is appointed, to try to make sure they don't get scared and take their money out. That's uncertainty around one person. Can you imagine the uncertainty around the future of the entire country where your billions of pounds of assets are being managed?

In a way I'd rather we just had indyref2. I can't cope with the uncertainty hanging over us. I want to throw every penny we have into buying our next house but I'm not going to do that while the future is so unknown.

Quincie · 10/05/2021 08:24

the interviewer on today programme on radio 4 mentioned a leadership vote in the Labour party - talking to Diane Abbott, she evaded a clear denial, said instead that she supports Keir.

A new leader and a decent Labour party would be the best for the whole of the UK, would shake up the Tories and the SNP.

WouldBeGood · 10/05/2021 08:41

Yvette Cooper?

I’d love a resurgent Labour Party

HappydaysArehere · 10/05/2021 08:43

Feel sorry for Scotland and also for us in England. Corbyn did for the Labour Party and Starmer needs to be more dynamic in personality and not just clever. Hence we have no real opposition and Johnson is given government on a plate.

Y0uCann0tBeSer10us · 10/05/2021 09:25

As the dust settles a little, I'm feeling a bit more relaxed about it all. Of course Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP will make a bit of noise and claim this is a clear mandate for Indyref2 as she does every now and then to keep the faithful in line, but even she is tempering expectations and saying COVID recovery comes first (whatever that means). The bottom line is that the extent of the unionist tactical voting and the failure to break through the 50% popular support barrier will have shaken her a bit. She's not stupid, and she will recognise that majority support for independence just isn't there at the minute and any referendum held soon would likely return the same verdict as last time, hence the chat about 'building the case'. They know they need to put forward credible answers to the tough questions of which there are many, as the 'it'll all be fine, we're all awesome, how dare you do Scotland down!?' line won't wash with most of us, so another Growth Commission-type report will need to be prepared. This will take time, and will probably also lower support a bit (if it's honest) as all those who believe it will be easy will have their eyes opened. So Sturgeon needs support to be consistently at the ~60% mark before pulling the trigger to be sure of winning, just like she was saying in 2016 actually.

All in all, I can't see Indyref2 being requested (let alone granted) for a while, and actual independence seems even further off than that, so I'm not going to stress myself out further by worrying about it now.

kikisparks · 10/05/2021 09:37

@Iwouldratherbesailing

What the tories have done wrong often refers to:

Using public money to line the pockets of their friends and associates.

Austerity and the benefit policies resulting in increased need for food banks, worsening child poverty, heavily impacting mental health and causing suicides- policies such as:

  • Bedroom tax, as you say, this involves reducing housing benefit if you’re in a home deemed too big- but didn’t account for situations such as where autistic children needed their own bedroom, or disabled people needed extra space etc and in any event is hugely problematic because there isn’t affordable housing of the “right” size to move to so people just struggle and get into arrears. In Scotland the Scottish government will cover the bedroom tax.
  • 2 child policy for CTC- all very well to limit your family size but besides the disgusting rape clause there are many cases where families can afford 3 or 4 children but job loss etc means they then need help and now they are likely to struggle and could end up in poverty. Similarly contraceptive failures, domestic abuse situations, relationship breakdown etc etc and the net result doesn’t seem to be that less children are born but rather that more children end up in poverty. Bear in mind many of those who end up needing CTC are in work.
  • Universal Credit - the 6 week wait caused huge issues like needing to use exploitative payday loans, food banks, or get into other debt because what do you do for 6 weeks with no income if you aren’t lucky enough to have savings and you need to eat, feed your children and heat your home. Again many people claiming are in work and if you are paid fortnightly you’ll get less over all than someone paid monthly because of how it’s worked out. Mistakes are difficult if not impossible to fix. More children in poverty.
  • Zero hours contracts- one of the reasons so many working people need benefit top ups, very hard to get benefits on time though if your hours change all the time.
  • benefit cap- you can only get so many benefits in total, so a single mother of three after a relationship breakdown might find she’s over the limit and they take it from her housing benefit so she ends up in arrears potentially threatened with homelessness.

I have seen all these situations personally, CABx are constantly trying to help people to budget in the benefit minefield but with their services getting cut too there’s a huge gap where people fall through. We are supposed to be a country with a safety net. There is report after report on how the U.K. is failing in this and how women and children are disproportionately affected. These are due to Tory policies. See report for example of United Nations Special Rapporteur on extreme poverty and human rights www.ohchr.org/documents/issues/poverty/eom_gb_16nov2018.pdf

“The Government has remained determinedly in a state of denial. Even while devolved authorities in Scotland and Northern Ireland are frantically trying to devise ways to ‘mitigate’, or in other words counteract, at least the worst features of the Government’s benefits policy, Ministers insisted to me that all is well and running according to plan.”

The Tory government have taken no steps to resolve all of the issues raised in this report.

Of course there are many other issues with the tories including their support for fox hunting, they voted that animals can’t feel pain, they have sold off parts of and reduced funding to the NHS www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/apr/04/tories-protect-nhs-coronavirus-slogan , they have handled the COVID crisis in an appalling and confusing manner, they have dropped funding into schools by 8% a year, expanded grammar schools which are largely hard to access for those from deprived backgrounds, set up academies, created a hostile environment, dealt badly with women’s pensions and so much more, before you even get into problems with the individuals within the party.

The Scottish government is by no means perfect but compared to the Tory government they are progressive and seem on the whole genuinely interested in improving the lives of the population even if they have not always had success. We have no tuition fees here, free prescriptions, free school meals to p3, free bus travel for under 22s, baby box etc and whatever you think of those things, people benefit from them.

So I am not surprised that so many people voted for the SNP and I think independence will always be a desire whilst the tories are in power down south.

kikisparks · 10/05/2021 09:38

Oh yeah and no magic money tree until they had to bribe the DUP for votes.

Y0uCann0tBeSer10us · 10/05/2021 09:45

2 child policy for CTC- all very well to limit your family size but besides the disgusting rape clause there are many cases where families can afford 3 or 4 children but job loss etc means they then need help and now they are likely to struggle and could end up in poverty.

I appreciate this isn't your core point, but I'm curious as to why the rape cause is 'disgusting'? The rape cause said that any child born as a result of rape would be supported. Do you think they shouldn't be?

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

This thread is closed and is no longer accepting replies. Click here to start a new thread.

Swipe left for the next trending thread