SNP supporters and the hate crime bill

[Ifyourefeelingsinister]

Scottish government are passing a bill tonight that will give hate crime protection to every protected characteristic - apart from sex. Yes, women apparently don't register as far as hate crimes go.

But cross dressers will be protected so that's fine - don't insult a man in a kilt even in your own home, as you could be arrested. However, every day misogyny - that's fine.

SNP supporters - are you ok with this????

@WouldBeGood feel free to enlighten me and I mean that genuinely. I've been trying to navigate my feelings on this for years. Clearly there were elements of the existing law that some felt weren't fit for purpose?

I looked at the feminist boards on here for guidance but they usually started well and descended into something I want many comfortable with.

I asked people I knew on social media and it started the most God awful slanging match you've seen.

I have not followed the debate tonight which I now regret as the chat about it on Twitter was, I'm not sure what the word is, complimentary?

Superlesbian
Supergay
Superbi

@WouldBeGood

If you’re going to come on and support the SG that’s fine. But be aware of the facts at least.

If you read my post and saw support then I suggest you read it again.

@littlbrowndog I noticed starry didn't answer your questions but belittled mine. You are someone albeit an internet poster but who clearly has good knowledge and rebuttals. I'm not as clued up but feel the same as you. As most of the women on this thread. This isn't about trans this about women's rights that where fought long and hard for.

To the poster that said this is the way of the future. Actually no it's the way of the bloody past.

There’s probably better people than me @snowcoveredcampsies and I’m really tired, but the bill protects groups like cross dressers from “hare speech” but not women. It equates sex with gender, and criminalises said “hate speech” even in your home.

So if you say, for example, TWANW in your home and your child reports you, as is encouraged by Humza, that’s potentially a crime.

Yes I survive

It’s not that I have good rebuttals as didn’t get beyond 4th year in school but I got my schooling on FWR

they are the best.

Sometimes I don’t speak there but just watch and see how I feel about what’s been said and written

Sometimes it gets a bit academic

But it’s been an education in a good way

Sometimes I think this stuff is very classist and erm elitist and no space for people like me.

Yet here I am learning

As I say, I’m tired, apologies for typos. It’s good that you’re looking i to it though. It sounds so mad it can’t be true, but it is. Eg you’re actually a transphobe if you’re a lesbian and don’t want to date a “woman” with a penis 🤷🏻‍♀️

It’s been a bad day. Hopefully someone else can explain better @snowcoveredcampsies. Thanks for being interested.

You can be superstraight dinosaur

I read the feminist pages, just don't post much due to the field I used to work in/want to return to.

It's not my sexuality (I'm happily bi), it's more I don't want to be a woman in a country which prizes lived experiences...just not ours. Common sense tells me that even at my most androgynous (and I'm tall, broad shouldered and flat arsed) men have had no issue identifying me as lesser so identifying out of this is impossible but God is it tempting to try.

So is the only proffered explanation for women not being covered in the HCB that they require separate legislation due to complexity? Or have any other reasons been given?

I too lurk a lot on feminist chat, rarely posting though. Those posters are phenomenal and that section has really opened my eyes to all of this as previously I was in the, “be kind,” camp.

I still believe in equality for all, including trans and I realise that most trans want to just live their lives in mutual respect to others. However, there is a radical element which is really quite unnerving.

To others who are wondering why this is important, I would urge you to take a look at the feminist chat and really read what posters are saying as they are not being hateful or transphobic.

I don’t know what I’m going to do. I was waiting for the outcome of this to decide about renewing my membership of the SNP, I won’t be. I have campaigned for them, i have knocked on doors, I have persuaded others to vote for them in the past.... I will never never vote Green after Patrick Harvey today and they used to get my second vote. I am politically homeless, Labour are as bad. I couldn’t bring myself to vote Tory, I still have a moral compass! I probably won’t vote.

Thanks @WouldBeGood but you mentioned that the existing legislation was already there to protect trans folk. There was no need to update it?

I suppose what I'm asking is why do the folk who support the Bill feel like it was required?

It seems to me that trans people did lack some form of protection but in order to give them that there had been an impact on women's rights. What exactly that was I don't know.

I am definitely lacking knowledge in this area. (Not so much in theoretical concepts of genre. That was part of my (incomplete) studies many years ago) I freely admit this. I'm certainly not the only poster, however, lacking nuanced information on what is a complex matter. See the many belittling posts about identifying as this and that for proof of that.

Gender not genre.

No @snowcoveredcampsies not me

They are already coming after the “transphobes” like Joan McAlpine on Twitter. This is truly terrible

Ah okay. Apologies.

I'll need to scroll back to see who it was.

Have a good look into it all @snowcoveredcampsies. It’s a minefield

Equalities Act 2010 lists it as a protected characteristic.

Also recommend reading the JK Rowling article on this for which there was outrage and cries if transphobia. I have read it in full and it’s a powerful and articulate piece.

I actually feel quite scared. How can people be so blind to this assault on women's rights? The amendment trying to define what a woman and man are didn't pass FFs! Humza too scared to say how many sexes there are!?!!

@OatcakeCravings

I don’t know what I’m going to do. I was waiting for the outcome of this to decide about renewing my membership of the SNP, I won’t be. I have campaigned for them, i have knocked on doors, I have persuaded others to vote for them in the past.... I will never never vote Green after Patrick Harvey today and they used to get my second vote. I am politically homeless, Labour are as bad. I couldn’t bring myself to vote Tory, I still have a moral compass! I probably won’t vote.

ISP.

Pro-indy but anti self-ID.

I just started checking them out yesterday when they announced their candidates.

And 2 days after International Women’s Day (that will have to be renamed! International People’s Day?

Welcome to McGilead.

I’d vote ISP or SSP but I’m not for Indy

Sums it up for me

I actually feel a bit like crying tonight. How did we get to the point where we can't even speak our minds in our own homes, where we can never let off steam, and where we have to forever live in fear of saying something that someone somewhere might find offensive? And what kind of country is Scotland for our daughters, where they may lose any right to feel safe in single sex spaces, and could be criminalised simply for trying to protect those rights. Common sense did not prevail, misogynists like Patrick Harvie have won the day. It feels so hopeless I could weep.