November Lockdown: Mibbes Aye Mibbes Naw

[BlueThursday]

Thread 3!!!!

We had Christmas by ourselves last year, first time we've ever done it. It was fine, we quite liked it, but I don't want to do it every year. Can't believe that we chose to be alone last year and now it's being forced on us by the look of things again this year. What were the chances of that?

The problem is that the decision of the Conservative UK Government to ignore the advice of their own Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (SAGE) has cost not only lives but livelihoods too.

This is the same UK Government who rejected calls from the SNP and others to continue the furlough scheme for workers in lockdown in Wales, Scotland, N. Ireland & North of England.

English workers deserve support but so do workers across the country. The Tories have just shown, again, where power lies in the UK. The decision not to extend furlough earlier has cost people their jobs — businesses across Scotland have already let employees go as they believed furlough was ending yesterday. This is a shambolic state of affairs presided over by the Tories.

Johnson and Sunak can wave the Union Flag all they like but the so-called ‘Conservative & Unionist Party’ proves once again it doesn’t care about Scotland. A chocolate teapot would be more use to Scottish businesses than 'not a penny more' Douglas Ross.

Christmas has always been the one time of year we'd all be together as a family but I know in the grand scheme of things, other families in other countries have it much worse. The thing that gets me though is that this didn't need to happen. We are an island. Easy to keep safe from incoming covid yet, as they have just done again, the UK Gov refused to act for months. By that point we were, as a nation, riddled with Covid. If the UK Government weren't so unbelievably inept, we wouldn't be in this situation.

Apologies I know you were all having nice Christmas chat and really not looking to get into an argument.. just sad for my family and friends in England more than anything.

There was a - pretty short - window where they could have done a New Zealand and slammed the border shut. By the time February half term happened and thousands went skiing it was too late. But they didn't want to, at that point, put in place the support which would have been required for the most affected industries, and they wouldn't have had the political support to do it as many/most people didn't think covid was that big a deal. It was still pretty small scale really at that point.

They could possibly have created an opportunity to do the same in mid summer, but would have needed to lock down longer so there were minimal cases in the community, and to really robustly track trace and isolate and again, there just want the political will to do it.

Nothing much to say today other than I don't think lockdowns make a blind bit of diffference long term as this is a remarkably well adapted virus - doesn't affect young people too badly, is asymptotic for many people so can spread undetected, mild for 80% of people who get it.

Perhaps against he grain but think we need to take sensible precautions e.g. 2m social distancing, masks by choice, limit contacts but allow things to be open and for people to meet their families (because I'm pretty sure most people will not comply with some of the most draconian measures).

I agree yoda I can't see the tier system plus lockdowns is a long term plan. I expect govts holding their breath now for oxford vaccine.

I'm not interested in debating who is worse at the minute, nobody seems to have a good strategy, France hasn't managed to contain it either, nor Germany for all their copious testing and lab space.

Perhaps some better news- a leaked document this morning has apparently shown NHS Lothian are preparing to roll out a coronavirus vaccine from Mid-December.

Fingers crossed.

www.glasgowtimes.co.uk/news/18838304.amp/

Even if they get a vaccine, we won't all get it at once and would it even work

Whether it works or not, we need to see. Even if it doesn't work as well as hoped, it moves the strategy on.

Would it work....

The billion dollar question. The WHO classes a working vaccine as one which works 50% of the time I believe. Obviously we don't know what a covid vaccine will be like, whether it will be at the highly effective long lasting end of the spectrum, or a regular booster, or one which has lower effectiveness.

If it's 50% effective and only given to 1/3 of the population (for example) then we would still have R above 1 if we were living normally.

Last I read the idea was to target the vaccine at vulnerable and healthcare workers. This may be enough if it slows transmission to the vulnerable and hence transmission back into and out of the community.

However that assumes that the vulnerable are the primary incubators of infection and that the vaccine will be effective in them. The current approach to blanket lockdowns suggest SAGE and co are doubtful about this or surely they would be favouring a more tailored approach?

Given the shambles in changing the arrangements for flu vaccines this year I have my doubts about preparedness for mass roll out at speed.

Agreed, the flu vaccines should have been a trial run for the covid vaccine and they were a bloody mess.

Tier 3 here...Lothian's 🤦‍♀️

Anyone else get an appointment for their 2 year old to have a flu vaccine? (no health conditions). I was a bit surprised that 2-5 yr olds are given it (know primary school kids are).

Very depressing thought but I can see us farting around going from lockdowns, tiers etc with point scoring from Holyrood vs Westminster until a vaccine is ready

Don’t want to derail.
There is a flu vaccine thread but as the topic has come up.

My DM in her late 70s finally got a letter through to get her flu vaccine but not until Mid November.

She is expected to travel several miles to a different area ( ironically Nicola Sturgeon’s constituency)
This is far too far to walk so it’s public transport or a taxi.
Totally ridiculous situation even without bloody coronavirus.

I’ve arranged for DM to have flu jab privately but that’s been a total rigmarole because she was very suspicious of going to a chemist to get it done.

I find some of the sweeping statements and generalisations on these threads incredibly disheartening.
Very few leaders, govts, countries are getting this situation ‘right’ and I agree with pp that endlessly debating who is ‘better’ is fairly futile.

I would have thought that ensuring that elderly people living in Glasgow would have been a priority for a flu jab under any circumstances but especially now.

@BusyDreaming, hi again! I'm glad you have got your mum sorted for her jag, I don't know why there's been such a mess with the flu jags this year, my friends mum has been kept waiting for ages too. Just one word of warning, dh went for his jag on Friday but they told him they'd run out of supplies.... They did email but he hadn't seen it. Maybe best to tell your mum to check with the chemist before setting out for it, just incase.

@Scotslassie1 Yes, the flu vaccine is offered every year for children aged 2-5. Some children under 2 get it as well, if they have certain health conditions.

@IwishIwasyoda I agree with your assessment.

Thanks DireWolf

ssd thanks for the info. Much appreciated.
I feel like I’m going round in ever decreasing circles today!

I’ve suggested to DM that she keeps her ‘official’ appt just in case.
Honestly, you’d think I’d entered her in some kind of unofficial vaccine trial because I’ve arranged the flu jab at a chemist.
It’s been 20 questions.

I’m just keen for her to get her flu jab sooner rather than later as she likes to be out and about as much as possible.

Feeling a bit fed up with it all today, sorry.

My 3 year old has her appointment next week and both of my parents have had their flu jab. No mention of DH's though and he's in a 'vulnerable' category. His GP is a bit crap though.

My MIL got hers at one of the drive through clinics - which was pretty disorganised by all accounts. My work normally offers them for free (as part of our medical insurance really) to everyone. Not able to do it as usual in the office but they haven't even been able to offer everyone vouchers as planned to get it done at a pharmacy due to supply issues.

They are getting to at least some people but it's been messy. It just strikes me that - except children - the folk they want to get flu vaccines are mostly the vulnerable for covid too so this really should have been a trial run for getting these to as many as possible, as quickly as possible.

Feeling a bit fed up with it all today. It just feels endless. Doesn't help that we moved not that long ago and haven't really been able to meet anyone where we live because of lockdown/covid measures and I can't really see an end in sight.

The government can't just take SAGE advice verbatim, they need to consider other economic data too.