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Scotsnet

Welcome to Scotsnet - discuss all aspects of life in Scotland, including relocating, schools and local areas.

General Election - June 8th

371 replies

TinfoilHattie · 18/04/2017 12:02

Another vote.

Can totally understand why May has made this move and it is very interersting from a Scottish perspective. Less about Brexit, more about another independence referendum.

I am very torn on who to vote for. It was exceptionally close between SNP and Lib Dem here last time round so it will probably be Lib Dem, but if polls show more chance of the Conservatives or Labour getting the SNP MP out on his ear I'd vote for either of those too. (V unlikely that Labour would be in that position though). Wouldn't ever vote Green.

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sugarmonster64 · 19/04/2017 20:37

Oil might be sold for the same price globally (and it isn't as its dependent on crude quality) but the cost to extract it varies wildly and the UK is a high cost environment so companies are making low profits at $50/bbl and at this price it's difficult to develop some of the discoveries off Shetland economically. Plus the uk has significant liabilities for all the upcoming decommissioning activity hence why it is constantly reviewing taxes to incentivise companies to keep producing. If tax rises make producing oil uneconomic activity ceases and more people in Aberdeen (who are also likely to be high earners) become redundant and the state loses that tax revenue.

NoLotteryWinYet · 19/04/2017 20:38

Yeah mine is predicted to be an SNP hold for Brock - labour is the closest challenging party...

TinfoilHattie · 19/04/2017 22:41

It's still very early days yet - and remember how wrong the polls were last time.

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LassWiTheDelicateAir · 19/04/2017 23:08

I'll also be voting for whoever has the greatest chance of removing the SNP incumbent, as the SNP are the greatest threat to Scotland and the UK as a whole by a huge margin, and getting rid of them trumps everything else for me

Me too. Looks like I'll be voting Lib Dem

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 19/04/2017 23:16

Clicked on that link regarding the electoral calculus. It still has Natalie McGarry as SNP and them being predicted to hold the seat

Same for me except it predicts the complete numpty that is Michelle Thomson who had to resign the SNP whip as holding it.

WankersHacksandThieves · 19/04/2017 23:31

Yes, think it's not up to date. Neither of them are my MP, I just checked McGarry since she was in the news for fainting.

I've that gormless moron Steven Paterson, could be worse, could have the even more gormless Tasmina.

Some of these folk are a waste of skin and bone.

cheeseandcrackers77 · 19/04/2017 23:32

Delighted Jo Swinson is standing again in my area she was often seen about at local events. haven't seen the SNP guy who got in about anywhere (though seeing as his campaign leaflets had a 20 year old photo of him I wouldn't have recognised him if he was about lol).

MorrisZapp · 19/04/2017 23:41

Just saw Nick Clegg on Newsnight.

He's like the boring boyfriend you dumped for refusing to try speed who now looks like husband material.

But it's too late. You fucked up.

WankersHacksandThieves · 19/04/2017 23:49

It also hacks me off that they go on about Scots not being represented in Westminster when they are virtually the only party representing Scotland and have twice as many seats as the proportion of votes they have. And it's not like the SNP are able to deviate from the party line in order to appropriately represent the other non SNP constituents in their area.

Still, I suppose independence will add 59 to the unemployment figures.

For me the interesting thing will be the proportion of the vote they get, not how many seats, though it would be nice for them to lose a few.

unlucky83 · 20/04/2017 00:00

nyx - not an expert but as sugar said - which, as I understand it, is it is more expensive for us to extract the oil - so if we taxed the companies more it wouldn't be worth their while....

The divorce analogy - if the standing charge for a gas meter is £100 - in a shared house that is split between two £50 each - in two separate houses it is £100 each - so more expensive...and it is worse than that ...
Consulates are a good example. In theory iScotland and rUK would both need embassies in foreign countries -

rUK would have the revenue from around 60 million people...30 million tax payers to pay for theirs
Scotland would have revenue from less than 6 million - just over 2 million tax payers to pay for theirs .
But the running costs of Scotland's embassy won't be 10-15x less than that of rUK.
For all these things you have to have a building, heating and maintenance costs, management , admin, IT systems etc...to provide for fewer people it would cost less overall but not proportionally less. It is economy of scale. The same reasoning why it costs more per child to educate them in a small school than a bigger one.
And this would be true for all government departments etc - the HMRC , the DVLA.

Remember all the fuss recently about the new UK passport design costing £500m ...mainly because of all the security features - Scotland would need its own passport design ...
And there would fewer people paying towards these things -so they would cost more per head...
The Brexit thing...
How exactly would Scotland staying in the single market work?
blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/12/scotland-nothing-gain-staying-single-market/
It doesn't seem to make financial sense - it would also be a nightmare to get Brussels to agree to it - get the legal framework in place etc etc And then the bureaucracy - with freedom of movement and for eg companies based in England and Scotland etc etc
The SNP are playing politics - if it wasn't so serious I would love for TM to call their bluff and agree to it ....and then we could watch them back pedal.

Don't forget they CAN'T ever agree with Westminster -as that damages their case for independence.
I would love to have a Scottish government that was just acting in the interest of Scotland - within the UK - working with Westminster instead of trying to create friction...score points.

WankersHacksandThieves · 20/04/2017 00:10

We would also need an entire layer of financial regulation equivalent to the FCA. All the ombudsmen services, information commissioner etc etc etc.

Nyx · 20/04/2017 00:26

We would need everything, yes, like other independent countries. Why ever not? Jeezo, it's seriously a wonder how any small to medium sized country with decent natural resources, (including oil), a goodish number of industries and exports, an educated population and friendly communication with other countries is able to function without being in the UK. There must be a queue to join.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 20/04/2017 00:27

Can anyone explain what the point was of the pointless posturing by the SNP in abstaining from voting in favour of calling an election ?

I'm really scratching my head to work out what they thought they were proving (other than demonstrating yet again that they are incapable of having any independent thoughts)

Nyx · 20/04/2017 00:47

Not completely sure lass but I think it was because it was obvious what would happen - Tory victory - and the SNP want no part of bringing that about. If there was any chance of stopping it i would guess they may have voted against, but since that was a non starter, voting against would have had everyone saying they were running scared or trying to block democracy or something.

WankersHacksandThieves · 20/04/2017 00:54

But the point is that we already have access to all these things at a smaller cost than running them not even talking about setting them up from scratch and obtaining suitably trained and qualified people. We already have a governing chamber in Scotland that isnt fit for purpose.

In the end there is no point arguing with the vast majority of SNP supporters as they are like religious zealots, only seeing what they believe and thinking that everyone else would be so much better off if only we could be persuaded that we've been hoodwinked and that NS really is the messiah that the country has been waiting for. The fact that they've promised everyone more but not explained that they will have to pay more to get it is reprehensible.

Ultimately they will get independence I believe as they aren't going to give up until they get it. At that point I hope that we are at least in Europe so we have open borders so I can live somewhere else. I voted for Britain to stay in the eu but accept the vote. We weren't asked what type of exit we wanted as exit was all that was on the table. To me that means completely out. I'd still rather be part of the UK and out of eu than an independent Scotland within the eu.

unlucky83 · 20/04/2017 00:58

nyx the point is even if our economy wasn't in such a bad way we would be worse off as an independent country - we would have to have a much stronger economy just to have the same standard of living we have now.
Part of the reasoning behind getting more per head from Barnett is because we are sparsely populated and rural populations are expensive to provide services like policing, health, education - even for things like utilities - telephones, electricity etc. Our population density is around 70 people per sq km - compared 450ish in England.

iirc it costs nearly £11,000 pa to educate a child in Shetland - the average is around £5.5k in Scotland...the lowest amount is about £4.5k - which is the average for England - the lowest in England being less than £3.5k ... and a lot of that is down to more rural/small schools. (Although the most expensive schools in the England are deprived inner city areas -at about £8k)

Independence as things stand financially now would be horrific - the sums didn't add up in 2014 - they really don't make sense now.
I am not a committed unionist - if I felt we would gain more than we would lose I would support independence - but we won't.
I don't believe Westminster stands in the way of us improving things now - which is what we should be concentrating on. (I suspect the SNP don't really want people to have a better standard of living - if people are content they are less likely to vote for change - independence...)

NoLotteryWinYet · 20/04/2017 07:52

Hah should we start interviewing for replacement countries wanting to join the U.K.? I expect there would indeed be a queue to join a g8 country

MorrisZapp · 20/04/2017 08:18

God I'm so sick of hearing what a talented and creative population we have. I live in Edinburgh, talent and creativity central.

Have you seen our cooncil? They run the full range from merely incompetent to openly corrupt.

Are all the talented, charismatic politicians hiding in a room somewhere, only willing to show themselves if we go independent? Or are we frankly no more blessed with talent than any other bloody country.

If we're so talented I look forward to winning the World Cup once we've thrown the shackles off and all the great homegrown footballers can finally announce themselves.

Nyx · 20/04/2017 08:49

Oh here we go. It's the 'there's no point being reasonable with these people, they're like religious zealoots' non-argument, thanks for trying to completely shut down discussion Wankers. And Morris, I said educated, but not sure why you are ranting about people saying we're talented and creative.

Yes, we have access to those things currently. But in fact we don't have access to lots of things in our own country or to influence our own economy, for example corporation tax, immigration policy, even a Brexit that we don't want. And to use someone's household analogy (although running a country is not really like running a household, is it?), why would you want to share your washing machine/utilities with your neighbour, using the same bath etc, you need your own surely. Do you hand your wages to your neighbour and await money back and allow them to make deals with your neighbours to use the garden in return for something that will benefit them? If your neighbours borrowed on their credit card and said to you 'you have to pay a share of that because I have bought a bigger car, ffs, you should be grateful' - No.

Yes, becoming independent would cost money. What doesn't? Priorities need to be decided. And I would rather Scotland had the chance to decide our own kind of country, which doesn't sell off anything and everything to private investors, which doesn't mean someone has to be really quite comfortably well off in order to sleep at night without worrying about healthcare or that their disabled family member can be looked after properly without having to beg, that looks after the weak and poor instead of closing down shelters for abused wives and children. A country which is actively appalled when told to make a woman who was raped fill in an eight page form and prove to a heath professional that she is not lying in order to get child benefit. Run for the benefit of its own population instead of for the elite 1% in the UK as a whole.

I would love to see proper Scottish political parties after independence come up with manifestos and choose which I agreed with. A real Scottish Labour which is not merely a branch office, where the Scottish Labour leader could state their own policies and not be contradicted by a boss in a different country who doesn't agree with them. Even a Conservative party in Scotland, along with Greens and whoever else. We could perhaps get some proper debate about things that matter to us. The population would feel that their votes count.

Not a committed unionist. Right. The SNP don't want people to have a better standard of living. Right. That's why they are spending millions on mitigating Tory policies for the most vulnerable in Scotland. Perhaps if they didn't have to spend so much doing that, they might have more options.
You may have felt the sums didn't add up in 2014, fair enough. But the option now for Scotland in a Brexit UK is what looks horrific to me.

But I can see that unless you are guaranteed an immediate uplift in income and standard of life there is no way you will even consider Scotland's independence and I am being dismissed as a zealot so why am I even bothering. It's strange to me that the Scotsnet board is the one that this sort of comment pops up on most often.

TinfoilHattie · 20/04/2017 08:53

tinfoil you should challenge him on this on twitter and see how quickly you are blocked!

Have been blocked by John Nicolson for over 2 years. Not because I was goady, or challenging, or rude. Because I pointed out that his campaign picture last time was at least 20 years out of date, and wondered if that didn't make him just a wee bitty vain.

All that guff about "representing each and every one of my constituents" translates as "only the ones who voted SNP, the rest will get blocked and can fuck right off". Horrid man.

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TinfoilHattie · 20/04/2017 08:56

haven't seen the SNP guy who got in about anywhere

That's because he's always on Newsnight, or Radio 4 or any other media outlet which will have him. Can't expect him to be dirtying his hands with constituency business. Hmm

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TinfoilHattie · 20/04/2017 08:59

Can anyone explain what the point was of the pointless posturing by the SNP in abstaining from voting in favour of calling an election ?

Because they are programmed to spontaneously combust if they say/do anything which agrees with the "Tory" or "Westmonster" government. And they're not allowed to have their own opinions on anything, they have to blindly follow the party line.

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MorrisZapp · 20/04/2017 09:06

What's this about not flogging our stuff to private investors?

Register House in the heart of Edinburgh was purpose built in 1855 to house our nation's birth, death and marriage records. It's an architecturally significant building and contains our entire social history. It draws visitors from all over the world.

There are plans to move the records out to a unit at the Gyle and flog the building.

Is Theresa May doing this? No, it's our greedy local politicians. If Register House gets sold and turned into a Nandos then we can lay that argument to rest forever. Scottish politicians are like politicians the world over until I see actual evidence to prove otherwise.

Calyx72 · 20/04/2017 09:15

Hear, hear Nyx.

Nyx · 20/04/2017 09:25

Morris, as far as I can see that was suggested in 2015. Nothing has been decided, nothing has been done. This doesn't appear to be a current issue but of course I could be wrong? There is an argument for moving records to a more made for purpose environment, particularly older records surely. Nobody suggests it should be turned into a Nandos.

Of course Scottish politicians are politicians. Would you prefer them to be otherwise? Perhaps you would prefer them to be vets, or lawyers, or philanthropists.