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Scotsnet

Welcome to Scotsnet - discuss all aspects of life in Scotland, including relocating, schools and local areas.

General Election - June 8th

371 replies

TinfoilHattie · 18/04/2017 12:02

Another vote.

Can totally understand why May has made this move and it is very interersting from a Scottish perspective. Less about Brexit, more about another independence referendum.

I am very torn on who to vote for. It was exceptionally close between SNP and Lib Dem here last time round so it will probably be Lib Dem, but if polls show more chance of the Conservatives or Labour getting the SNP MP out on his ear I'd vote for either of those too. (V unlikely that Labour would be in that position though). Wouldn't ever vote Green.

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Y0uCann0tBeSer10us · 19/04/2017 12:54

lost city jobs - that'll be the impact of Brexit, but presumably you don't mind that all those who think Brexit is going to be great?

Who said Brexit will be great? A few people have suggested that Independence will be worse (a fairly logical point of view), and that it's impact will be layered on top of that of Brexit, but I don't remember anyone saying Brexit would be great.

OOAOML · 19/04/2017 12:54

Has Alistair Carmichael said if he is standing again? I imagine it would be very awkward after the court case.

OOAOML · 19/04/2017 12:59

There's a few that seem pro-Brexit. My main point I think is that jobs are at risk from both Brexit and independence. There will be economic turbulence from either. The UK no longer offers stability, the Yes campaign can't sell a sunny vision this time - but for me the question of 'what kind of country do I want to live in?' is much more important. Whatever happens, there will be upheaval. It just comes down to which you think is worth it. I don't think anyone really knows what either option will be like, there are so many variables and so many factors outwith Scotland's/UK's control.

Y0uCann0tBeSer10us · 19/04/2017 13:00

I wouldn't be surprised if he's 'encouraged' to go tbh. The polls on the electoral calculus site suggest a very tight race and the lib dems might not want to risk it.

TinfoilHattie · 19/04/2017 13:01

No idea if he is standing. I have been looking at Twitter on and off and it's been very quiet from a lot of former Scottish MPs, the announcement has taken them all by surprise I think and they're all desperately scrabbling around trying to decide what to do.

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howabout · 19/04/2017 13:05

Thanks for the link Tinfoil. Not heard Alistair Carmichael suggest not standing. If anything, as part of the Orcadian diaspora I have been noticing how high profile he has been. eg He handled all the media etc at the Richmond count. I reckon he will be fine and also forgiven.

Y0uCann0tBeSer10us · 19/04/2017 13:07

I agree with much of what you say OOAOML, although I suspect we come down on different sides of the independence line. There will be a lot of upheaval regardless, and much of it is outwith our control. But I'd back the UK every time. The kind of country we live in is important to me too - I guess I just don't recognise this supposed massive divide between Scotland and the rUK (the people that is, which I think is the important thing as politicians come and go). I think when it comes to it, people have broadly similar views on things like immigration, the NHS, education, public services and how much tax they'd like to pay. If Scots were really that much happier to pay more tax, the SNP wouldn't have been sweetening everyone up with council tax freezes and free tuition fees for the last decade and they would have used the powers they already have. However, I suspect they know that they'd lose support if they did, because Scots don't like higher taxes either.

NoLotteryWinYet · 19/04/2017 13:11

Exactly what y0u said, I'd be happy to pay higher taxes if well spent but the SNP only care about independence or they'd already have ended austerity here

MorrisZapp · 19/04/2017 13:20

Totally agree. Scots don't want tax increases any more than English voters do.

Nyx · 19/04/2017 13:22

How would the SNP have ended austerity exactly? They have a part of some tax powers. Income tax only. They are already mitigating the worst of the Tory cuts for the worst affected. They are not magicians. Honestly, ' they don't care or they would have ended austerity already' I give up.

NoLotteryWinYet · 19/04/2017 13:48

and the problem with left wingers raising income tax is what exactly? It's vote-losing, that's the only problem with it. Independence is a very courageous decision from a tax perspective as the SNP well know.

Nyx · 19/04/2017 14:42

So you propose that the SNP 'end austerity' by raising income tax.

NoLotteryWinYet · 19/04/2017 15:13

yes - income tax is a progressive tax you pay more as you earn more, unlike VAT. Hardly shocking..how else would the SNP end austerity? By pie in the sky? If people want better services they have to be paid for.

howabout · 19/04/2017 16:00

Raising income tax would have been a lot fairer / more progressive than the Council Tax hikes.

unlucky83 · 19/04/2017 17:20

nyx What I am saying is that the oil prices tanking have put us in a really bad economic position - of course we have other income streams but they obviously aren't enough for us to be 'ok' without the oil. And that is what we need to work on for any hope of being successful as an independent country.
When oil prices are high we should be thriving - when they are low we should still be just getting by - not as we are now in serious economic trouble.
Oil revenue should be like overtime payments - if work is busy and you are getting them you can afford a few luxuries - a good Christmas/Holiday - if you aren't getting overtime you can't have as many luxuries but you can still afford your mortgage/rent, pay your bills and feed yourself.

And you say about Trident - 'only a few jobs' - but what about ship building in that area? The same area...
ukdefencejournal.org.uk/would-naval-shipbuilding-continue-on-the-clyde-if-scotland-leaves-the-uk/
So a double whammy of job losses ...in the same area.

The rUK doesn't want to end the Union (or at least the politicians) because it would cost them more in the long run - but not as much as it would cost Scotland more. The word divorce has been mentioned during Brexit - but splitting the Union would be more like a divorce.
At the moment we live in the same house (have shared departments doing the same things) . As two separate countries we would be living in two different houses - have to pay housing costs, two lots of utility bills (need two departments for everything) And just because they are smaller (dealing with a smaller population) doesn't mean they would be proportionally less - two lots of line rental/standing charge, two lots of Wifi, two lots of property repairs etc.
Leaving the EU is different because we already have the departments we need...they are duplicated to an extent in the EU. We already live in different houses...and we are contributing to the upkeep of both.

The argument that Westminster is not listening to Scotland in the Brexit negotiations is rubbish. The SNP don't want to agree with or even work with Westminster - that undermines their case for independence.
And their attitude is not looking after Scotland's interest -if anything is harming our interests. It is like being asked what you want for your birthday and saying something that you are told they can't afford and saying in that case I don't want anything then. I won't discuss it with you, won't compromise. Cutting off your nose to spite your face... (In fact it is like asking a boyfriend you want to split up with for something ludicrous - so you have an excuse to dump them...)

Nyx · 19/04/2017 18:58

Unlucky, thanks for the post. Hope you don't mind my take on it.

Firstly, oil prices are improving. Plus, if independent, we wouldn't practically pay the oil companies to take it out of the ground for us. We would tax them more appropriately, as pretty much all other oil producing countries do. We here in the UK give them subsidies. Which was good when it looked like the oil industry was going to collapse, but now that new fields are being found and lots of investment by said oil companies is being made, should be looked at again. Tax breaks to help the industry, fair enough, but all tax? When you see how much Shell and BP have paid other countries in tax, even when oil prices were at their lowest, and compare that with the subsidies we are giving them. Oil companies pay tax everywhere except the UK/Scotland. I saw on a comment thread somewhere someone asking Is that bad management/incompetence or is it deliberate policy? Which just happens to tie in to the Westminster/Unionist mantra of Scotland's oil being worthless. The oil sells for the same price whether it was extracted in Scottish waters or in Norway.

I am scratching my head at your divorce analogy. Yes, two lots of utility bills would have to be paid etc, but Scotland wouldn't be paying both. Scotland would have one lot of bills to pay and they would all relate to Scotland. Someone divorcing doesn't pay both parties' line rental, wifi, etc etc. We live on the same island but I see us as being in different houses (countries) when independent and neither would be paying for the other.

And I also don't understand why you say Westminster is listening to Scotland in the Brexit negotiations. The SNP gave Teresa May enough rope - Scotland wanted to Remain and Nicola Sturgeon stated that she would settle against her better judgement for an arrangement where Scotland remained in the single market, but that proposal was not even discussed. It was dismissed out of hand. That is Westminster refusing to even countenance discussion with Scotland about Brexit, never mind work with them. What you mean is Westminster want to work with Scotland if Scotland will agree to forget everything the majority in Scotland voted for, lie down and roll over and say 'OK, no bother, bring on the hard Brexit and I'll just wave my cheerleader pompoms over here for you. Oh, and see if you can use our fishing rights to get you some juicy deals for London's financial stuff, why don't you'. If the SNP don't do that then they are so unreasonable. OK, I see now that Scotland having access to the single market is an absolute no-no for some reason; not even a reason why is given except that we are one union, precious union, etc etc, like Scotland doesn't exist except as a region of the UK. Nicola Sturgeon has done the opposite of what you say, she has asked for talks and compromise and has been given not one single chance to discuss anything relating to Brexit at all. Hell, even before Brexit, Westminster bargained away Scotland's fishing rights without a Scottish MP or MEP having a say. Nigel Farage didn't even go to most of the meetings. So, I don't believe there was ever any intention of 'working with Scotland to all of our advantage'.

TinfoilHattie · 19/04/2017 19:09

Just seen on Twitter that Jo Swinson has announced she's standing in East Dunbartonshire - absolutely DELIGHTED. She was great as our MP last time, she's a local lass, her parents still live locally and she worked tirelessly. Turned up at our school fair and threw a welly with the best of them.

Current MP... not so much.

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Shenanagins · 19/04/2017 19:17

I think Carmichael will be safe. His constituents are very aware of the volatility of the oil industry and its impact, especially after the latest downturn after indyref. I can't see them being persuaded that all is well again as the oil price is up again.

Y0uCann0tBeSer10us · 19/04/2017 19:18

I've heard a fair bit of buyer's remorse about voting out Jo Swinson Tinfoil. It seems she was very well liked and respected. Hope she gets back in.

Shenanagins · 19/04/2017 19:18

tinfoil you should challenge him on this on twitter and see how quickly you are blocked!

OOAOML · 19/04/2017 19:52

As an example of the 'what kind of country question - tomorrow I'm going on a demonstration against the rape clause. Tory policy. That's the kind of ideological crap a Tory vote endorses.

TinfoilHattie · 19/04/2017 20:05

Saw Carmichael on the 6pm news and from the way he was speaking he is standing again.

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Y0uCann0tBeSer10us · 19/04/2017 20:16

tomorrow I'm going on a demonstration against the rape clause

As will many others from all over the UK no doubt.

OOAOML · 19/04/2017 20:20

I haven't seen any but hopefully yes. I've only seen the one in Glasgow the other week and the one in Edinburgh.

WankersHacksandThieves · 19/04/2017 20:27

Clicked on that link regarding the electoral calculus. It still has Natalie McGarry as SNP and them being predicted to hold the seat Confused Hmm.
Unfortunately in my ward there isn't a lot of chance of SNP being deposed even though the MP is fucking gormless.

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