General Election - June 8th

[TinfoilHattie]

Another vote.

Can totally understand why May has made this move and it is very interersting from a Scottish perspective. Less about Brexit, more about another independence referendum.

I am very torn on who to vote for. It was exceptionally close between SNP and Lib Dem here last time round so it will probably be Lib Dem, but if polls show more chance of the Conservatives or Labour getting the SNP MP out on his ear I'd vote for either of those too. (V unlikely that Labour would be in that position though). Wouldn't ever vote Green.

about Nick Clegg Morris.

Is anyone else expecting to see a collapse in the SNP vote? I think that Sturgeon has made an error in openly declaring the election in Scotland to be about independence. For her, it always would be, but she has put off any anti-Tory tactical voters by openly declaring. I don't think that anyone is really interested in another Indyref except for a very small core of SNP voters who would have voted for her anyway.

I don't live in Scotland anymore but am still registered to vote there. I can't find any polls for my constituency but the SNP candidate was returned in 2015 with a massive majority. Labour came a very distant second. Not sure how to vote this time. I am slightly more anti-Brexit than I am pro-Unionist, but that's only because I don't think that the SNP could win an independence referendum or even hold one anytime soon.

Nyx my point is that Scotland doesn't uniquely preserve precious assets that politicians in other places would merrily sell off. Plans to sell Register House are on ice at present but most of the staff think it will inevitably happen. When it does, the proof will be writ large that Scottish politicians are absolutely no different to politicians in Cornwall, Liverpool or Italy.

We're not different. Our population will not produce a caring, liberal, competent set of representatives any more than England does. We do not need to go independent, if we do it will cost a fortune to end up ruled by the same numpties. That's what politics is.

We are not different, you're right, we're all human. But I seriously doubt that if independent, we would be 'ruled' by the same Tory numpties with the same Tory policies. In Westminster, parliament is sovereign. In Scotland, the people are sovereign rather than the parliament or the crown. Which is kind of different.

Good to hear the East Dunbartonshire posse rooting for Jo! She was amazing, came to the school gates about four times. Absolutely devoted. As for John.. when I saw his pic pre GE 15 I thought oh he's handsome, he will get some votes based on that alone! And then I saw him once he was voted in and wondered if it was his dad.

Never underestimate the craziness of voters or the random reasons. So my MIL loved Jo. Told her she was running again. Then MIL said she was voting Tory as she likes Ruth Davidson. So I reminded her that she hates Theresa May, and complains about Tory cuts to her daughters PIP. But no, she likes Ruth and that's it.

I'm in a total dilemma about who to vote for. I'm anti brexit and anti independence and the only party that has both those aims are the Lib Dems.

My preferred outcome for the election is a reduction in seats for the Tories and a reduction in seats for the SNP.

The first of these is very very unlikely to happen, and I would prioritise a reduction in SNP seats over a reduction in Tory seats. Brexit is going to happen anyway, but we can send a message about indyref2 if the SNP lose seats.

So do I hold my nose and vote Tory to get the SNP out in my area or do I vote the way i should and vote Lib Dem?

I really wish I was in Jo Swinson's area as it would be a no brainer.

The biggest problem I have with the current independence argument is that it is based around hate and division and 'othering' of the rUK, and is apparently leading to many Scots genuinely believing that we are fundamentally different to the English or Welsh or Northern Irish. In fact, we're apparently just that bit better because we are liberal and tolerant and open minded, not like those awful Tory-loving English people down south (never mind that there was a Labour government just 7 years ago, and politics has gone in cycles for the entirety of living memory). It's very telling that even the SNP are not attempting to argue that an independent Scotland would be better off, only that we would be 'free of the Tories'. There is no positive case for independence.

It's a despicable tactic - find a scapegoat to blame for all of Scotland's ills, pick out all of the negative things and provocative words you can (the word 'rape' is being bandied about a lot atm - Angus Robertson managed to fit it in twice in a 2 minute interview about the general election), conflate the source of your demonisation with the whole of the UK, pretend that this situation will last forever, and promise that everything would be better if only we were free. Sounds very like some of the more controversial arguments that were used in the EU referendum, doesn't it?

I think my decision will become clearer after the council elections though.It will give an indication of tactical voting in my area.

Totally agree about 'othering', while simultaneously insisting that continental Europe are our brothers and sisters. We speak the same language as the English and more significantly, we watch the same telly. Some of us can see them from our upstairs windows.

They aren't different. They're us.

I'm a remainer btw, but it doesn't override my opposition to indy.

Are the SNP spending millions to help the poorest people in Scotland? How? What are they spending it on?
The NHS isn't in too great shape in Scotland either - and we have less of a problem with mass immigration (uncontrolled and therefore unpredictable rise in population) than England - haven't checked recently but I think Scotland is still failing its cancer treatment targets and that is an objective...
A couple of years ago I was in the Emergency medical unit - which is like A&E for patients referred by a GP it was chaos. Truly the NHS at breaking point. And it was in summer -so not norovirus/flu season. They had an old lady they thought was going to go into cardiac arrest - not only did they not have a bed for her ...they didn't even have a trolley - she was in a chair. (I overheard the nurse and doctors talking about it ). I needed a scan - but the Dr had used her allowance up -I had to go back in 3 days - by which time it was inconclusive - it took a further 9 months for me to have a more thorough scan - by which time I was told it more or less pointless. Oh and all that time I was on medication having weekly blood tests. It was a 6 month wait to see a consultant - who was taking early retirement and emigrating to Australia/New Zealand - to quote 'before Nicola takes any more of my pension' . Oh and before that I was hospitalised for something else and it took 6 months to arrange a different scan for that - by which time again it was too late to pick up what had caused the problem ...but at least it ruled out anything like cancer. The consultant who arranged that told me someone should have suggested I had one done privately -if I could afford it...it would have been more useful.

Police Scotland - I could rant about. For lots of reasons. Probably my favourite (but least concerning) was phoning lost property - you used to be able to phone a dedicated line at the police station - if no-one was around to answer you got a message to try again later (you couldn't leave a message) -it took a few attempts to get through, but it was a local call and not a big hassle. Then they introduced 101 - you had to go through them - who put you through to the same line and the same message.. I went into the station in the end.

My biggest one is education - the fact we are falling down the world rankings but also that the attainment gap is getting wider. We are truly failing children from the most deprived backgrounds - education is an important way of helping these children improve their lot - and we aren't. Actually that makes me very sad and very angry....
Instead of posturing about independence and how terrible Westminster is and how they are stopping the SNP making Scotland better - they should be trying to improve the things they do have control of...getting those right. Possibly it is deliberate - to strengthen the case for independence - although I do suspect they might just be incompetent...not capable of doing that.

Unlucky, from their website:
The SNP Scottish Government has taken steps to mitigate the worst aspects of Westminster’s welfare reform. Since 2013, the Scottish Government has spent nearly £400 million in an effort to alleviate Tory cuts to household incomes.
We are fully mitigating the Bedroom Tax in Scotland, and we have pledged to abolish the tax completely when we have the powers to do so.
We are providing help through the Scottish Welfare Fund, which consists of Crisis Grants for when someone experiences a disaster or emergency, and Community Care Grants to enable independent living.
We have restored Westminster’s cut to Council Tax support through the creation of Council Tax Reductions - protecting the incomes of over half a million people on low incomes.
We have extended the child allowance in the Council Tax Reduction scheme by 25 per cent, benefiting 77,000 households by an average of £173 per year or around £15 per month. This boost for low-income families will help nearly 140,000 children across Scotland.
We are also safeguarding the support for over 2,800 disabled people across Scotland with the new Scottish Independent Living Fund, which was set up in July 2015.
And we have extended the Scottish Welfare Fund on an interim basis to mitigate the UK government's decision to remove Housing Benefit for 18-21 year olds.

I'm not surprised that the Scottish government website only lists their achievements. I'd be amazed if they did anything else. But like unlucky I've noticed that education and health have gone backwards in recent years and I'm very worried and angry about that. England may also be struggling, but that's irrelevant as both of these departments are entirely within the remit of the Scottish government and have been for a long time. In the last couple of years the out of hours provision in our county has been rolled back to two clinics for the whole county, meaning that if we need to see a Dr we have to travel at least half an hour to another town. That's assuming you can even get an appointment - I know many parents who have had to wait with sick children for hours just to get a ring back. A and E is also so overstretched it's dangerous - we took a toddler with a head injury and had to wait for hours to be seen. On complaining to my MSP they sent me the transcripts for the meetings about it, and it is basically due to a shortage of Drs, despite the Scottish government being aware of this for years. Mismanagement, pure and simple. I'm told we have now lost all but one of the baby-weighing/HV clinics in our town too, and people who can't travel easily are really struggling to get help. These are all things the Scottish government could have prevented, but their focus has been elsewhere.

Morris I was also chuckling about Clegg - he's great Dad material, isn't he? He's been pretty good on holding the brexit debacle to account too in my view. I'd vote lib dem if they weren't flat last in my constituency...they get 5% of the vote.

In theory they are entirely within the Scottish government's remit, in practice we only have what we are given to spend on it. Which directly relates to what is spent on them down south. Barnett - from Wikipedia- "The formula applies only to expenditure on issues for which the devolved administrations (as opposed to UK central government) are responsible . Its principle is that any increase or reduction in expenditure in England will automatically lead to a proportionate increase or reduction in resources for the devolved governments in Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland."

Scotland's NHS is still better than elsewhere in the UK. It is a priority. Not like in England where it is deliberately being run down to make it look like privatization is the only or best option. While MPs stand to make personal fortunes from it.

And this is within the UK. Going backwards you say. Well, you ain't seen nothing yet. Independence is the only hope for the NHS as it was intended to be.

Re: spending on NHS. We can't spend more than we have. Under the Union we haven't got any way of improving the economy to increase our spending. And as the spending on the NHS reduces elsewhere in the UK, the portion of the block grant reduces also. Only independence can change this.

If it wasn't for the hope, the chance of Scottish independence I would be in despair. Tory policies are cruel and depressing. They make me 'angry and sad' and I am surprised you don't feel the same way.

Cross post Nyx

Sorry, it wasn't angry and sad this time, it was 'worried and angry'

Hello Calyx

Honestly, I think the only hope for the NHS (Scottish or UK) is a honest and frank discussion about what it's for in the modern age. The basic problem is that since it was set up the range of possible treatments has exploded, and these are often very expensive. Add in an aging population with increasingly complex health needs and funding is never going to realistically keep up.

I have no idea how independence, which will leave far less money in the pot to pay for things, is supposed to restore the NHS to what it was intended to be, unless you mean cutting out all of the modern treatments (like IVF) that were never envisaged when it was set up.

so tell me more about how you feel Scotland is being constrained in the union from improving its economy...that's just back to sloganeering again.

The reality of independence will be flight of wealthy tax payers, very high taxes, crumbling house prices and decreased economic activity, most likely.

Nyx and Calyx seem to fundamentally miss the point that the SNP can put up income tax, a progressive tax that the richer pay more of. The SNP can protect the NHS here, whatever you get from barnett, it's more than you'd have under independence.

I'm hoping it'll be clearer to most Scots that the SNP are ideologues who believe independence is better for Scotland in the teeth of any evidence. They don't want to govern a Scotland in the UK well, they want Scotland out of the UK and they'll then have free reign to make a hash of governing it.

Well I'm hoping that most Scots realise that the union is a noose for Scotland, or a pipe which takes its resources, hope, ideals down to Westminster where they are wasted and laughed at.

a pipe is currently funneling money back into Scotland right now, less of a noose and more of mattress for a soft landing when oil prices crash.