Second referendum part 2

[Gighasmokedhalibutisawesome]

Any appetite for a continuance or have I missed the new thread?
There was quite a heated squabble respectful exchange of views so I am sure there is more to be said......

[Y0uCann0tBeSer10us]

And of course (the non-reserved) fishing and agricultural powers will not be coming back to Scotland.

To be clear, we're talking about powers that Scotland doesn't currently have, so nothing is being grabbed? I thought the proposal was to examine a power sharing arrangement on repatriation, which is supported by many industry leaders, to maintain a kind of UK single market for these things and maximise returns.

[Fontella]

I have just learned from the news that it's the SNP conference this weekend. Wow, that's coincidental isn't it?

I can just picture it now. The outrage at the 'undemocratic Mrs May', the defiance 'we will have our referendum, 'Westminster' getting shoehorned in to every sentence.

[ItsAllGoingToBeFine]

To be clear, we're talking about powers that Scotland doesn't currently have, so nothing is being grabbed

We're talking powers that under the devolution settlement should come to Scotland. Fishing and agriculture are not reserved.

I have just learned from the news that it's the SNP conference this weekend. Wow, that's coincidental isn't it?

I was actually really surprised Sturgeon acted when she did. I saw it coming but assumed she was going to announce at the conference to the wild applause of her thousands of adoring fans.

[Y0uCann0tBeSer10us]

We're talking powers that under the devolution settlement should come to Scotland.

Even if it's better for the industry to have a power share arrangement?

[Gighasmokedhalibutisawesome]

On a lighter note I have rather imagined the "brexit negotiations" would mainly follow the five stages of grief - denial, anger, bargaining, depression, acceptance, .......particularly on costs and who is paying the bills before we even get to new trading and co-operation agreements.

Worryingly I cannot see past the image of the commissioners presenting the first item....the stationery bill......and the UK fainting. Then downhill all the way. I do not envy those involved.

[ItsAllGoingToBeFine]

Even if it's better for the industry to have a power share arrangement?

As long as it is equally beneficial for a specific industry and location wherever they are in the UK. I suspect though it'll actually be run from England and focusing on industry locations close to majority of the population.

[Iggi999]

It is perfectly possible to dislike the SNP and support independence.

[trixymalixy]

I thought sturgeon would have called for another referendum at the conference to rapturous applause too.

I also would choose the uk over the eu. We do 4x more trade with the UK.

[Lindy2]

I'm not particularly knowledgeable on Scottish issues. I'm from Southern England and I agree that Southern England and Scotland have some quite different issues.
However, I would be very sad if Scotland were to leave the UK. (I admit I was very happy when the vote was to stay). I think Scotland is great and I've always felt very welcome there when I've visited. I think the UK is a very different union than the EU set up. I think the relationships and history is stronger.
The way Sturgeon talks she makes out that all Scots hate the English and feel closer the the EU Parliment than the UK Parliment. I don't think that is overwhelmingly the case. Scotland voted to stay in the EU but not by a huge margin. Sturgeon makes out that all Scots are desperate to be in the EU but that wasn't really the case.

[Y0uCann0tBeSer10us]

The way Sturgeon talks she makes out that all Scots hate the English and feel closer the the EU Parliment than the UK Parliment. I don't think that is overwhelmingly the case. Scotland voted to stay in the EU but not by a huge margin. Sturgeon makes out that all Scots are desperate to be in the EU but that wasn't really the case.

You're absolutely right on this. In fact the recent social attitudes survey showed that Euroscepticism is growing in Scotland and a large majority either want out or for the EU to have less power - this is allegedly why EU membership after independence was replaced by EFTA membership. Sturgeon has been really disingenuous about this issue for all sorts of reasons. Most Scots have no issue at all with the English, and as you can see from these threads a lot of us are mightily pissed off with the independence issue raising it's ugly head again!

[trixymalixy]

Scotland's Brexit vote was distorted by the nats desire for indyref2. I'm sure plenty "held their nose" and voted to remain just like the career politician Mhairi black.

That'll be why sturgeon is now back pedalling on staying in the eu.

[cdtaylornats]

Before fishing and agriculture powers are allocated might do well to consult fishermen and farmers, two groups that are mightily pissed off with Holyrood.

Close the money pit down and send all of the powers back. Closing Holyrood down should be an option for another Indyref.

[Fontella]

Anyone watch Question Time tonight?

The SNP woman was actually getting quite rattled in parts, but I have got to hand it to them, they are incredibly slick politicians.

At one point a bloke asked what currency Scotland were going to use 'the groat? and the audience laughed. She dived straight in 'I would warn you that lots of Scottish people are watching this and they won't take too kindly that you are taking the piss' (obviously not those words but that was the message) and the audience were all duly chastised.

But they weren't laughing at the Scottish people, they were laughing at the bloke and the way he said 'groat' - most of them probably didn't even know that the groat had been a real coin at one point, and thought it was just a funny word - but she immediately saw an opportunity to score a political point out of it.

Very slick indeed.

She also made sure she wrote down the names of everyone who asked a question and replied to them by name - you could see her glance down at her pad each time before she said 'Susan' or 'James' or whatever to the person she was speaking to. She also had researched the area of West Sussex where it was being held by bigging up the local 'English' wine and saying she was a big fan of it.

I didn't like what she had to say, but I've got to admire the craft. I can see how they can be so persuasive.

[Bejazzled]

Just watched Joanna Cherry mp boasting on question time about how well the NHS is doing in Scotland and that perhaps Westminster should follow our example.

The utter brass necked lying cow. I am no fan at all of the SNP but that was lower than snakes belly 😡

[Fontella]

Joanna Cherry it was.

[Bejazzled]

quite a cross post there!

[Bejazzled]

Are you me ?

[Fontella]

Cross posted Bejazzled

I missed the last bit about the NHS because I came upstairs to post on the thread.

I don't know who she is and I didn't take to her at all, but my goodness, I'm wondering if the SNP have got some training camp where they send them to learn all the tricks of the trade.

[Fontella]

Are you me?

Hahaha - no I'm me, at least I think I'm me.

I never watch Question Time but getting on all these Scotsnet threads has got me all interested in politics.

She put on quite the performance didn't she?

[Fontella]

Bloody hell,

Just looked on twitter and they are all patting her on the back and saying how well she did.

I must have been watching a different programme then.

[Bejazzled]

They are extremely well rehearsed for sure.

Set phrases to be repeated as often as possible, faux offence to be taken, and don't forget to mention that Sturgeon has a mandate based on a manifesto promise to the Scottish people...repeat ad nauseum

[Fontella]

But it works.

Just looked on twitter and there are English people apologising to Scotland on behalf of the audience etc., Scottish people saying how offended they were blah blah.

The audience weren't bad at all. It's Bognor Regis ffs on the south coast of England and most of the first half of the programme was dominated with talk about Scottish Independence. She didn't get lots of applause, but she got plenty of bloody airtime. Bognor is a safe Conservative seat, and they voted 62% for Brexit, so they were hardly going to be falling over themselves to cheer on the SNP were they?

[Bejazzled]

No, but they were quite fair when Angela Eagle and the Wetherspoons owner made a couple of good points.
And re Twitter, well it's Twitter.....🤡

[Fontella]

I know, but I'm started to realise how much things are spun depending on what political points you want to score.

The show they are tweeting about featured the 'cool, calm and dignified' Joanna, being given a hard time by the pig ignorant Bognor Regis audience who were taking the piss out of the Scots.

I watched something different entirely.

[Bejazzled]

Everyone who watched it saw the reality.

LOL at "cool calm and collected" she was like a gasping goldfish more than once