Second referendum part 2

[Gighasmokedhalibutisawesome]

Any appetite for a continuance or have I missed the new thread?
There was quite a heated squabble respectful exchange of views so I am sure there is more to be said......

[QueenLaBeefah]

I do not trust the SNP to put Scotland first. It is all about what the party wants and sod everyone else.

[ItsAllGoingToBeFine]

The SNP do not want the best for the UK. They want to see Brexit negotiations fail.

I would argue that those two statements oppose each other...

[cdtaylornats]

I think May played a blinder - the SNP conference will be overwhelmingly about how badly they've been treated and not one word of policy will come out.

Sturgeon can't even call a snap election because she doesn't have a majority.

[ItsAllGoingToBeFine]

Sturgeon can't even call a snap election because she doesn't have a majority

Why would she call a snap election?

[AndHoldTheBun]

Youcanotbeserious- you don't want your Scottish, elected representatives to have any say in Brexit negotiations?! Really? So who speaks for us in Scotland, if not our elected representatives?

[LassWiTheDelicateAir]

you don't want your Scottish, elected representatives to have any say in Brexit negotiations?! Really? So who speaks for us in Scotland, if not our elected representatives

Not when I have no faith or trust in them. I simply do not believe they want the best for Scotland- they want independence. At any price.

[Y0uCann0tBeSer10us]

Youcanotbeserious- you don't want your Scottish, elected representatives to have any say in Brexit negotiations?! Really? So who speaks for us in Scotland, if not our elected representatives?

As I said, if I thought that our elected representatives could be trusted to act with the best interests of the country in mind, my ideal scenario would be a cross-party negotiating team. But I don't believe that our representatives do have the best interests of the country in mind - I think they want to cause as much trouble as possible in order to prove that Brexit is a disaster and our only saviour is independence.

But I actually disagree with the premise of you question, that the needs of Scotland are massively different to anywhere else in the UK. If there are specific industries that would like consideration, then they can make representations as others have been doing from elsewhere in the UK. Then the UK team will speak for Scotland, as they will for everywhere else.

[ItsAllGoingToBeFine]

If there are specific industries that would like consideration, then they can make representations as others have been doing from elsewhere in the UK

But as has been stated many times on this thread the needs of the SE England must come first as that is where most of the population is. Therefore as Scotland is insignificant, Scottish industries will get chucked under the bus first.

Except now they won't, as the EU wouldn't accept that as the risk of Scotland becoming independent is too high.

[Y0uCann0tBeSer10us]

But as has been stated many times on this thread the needs of the SE England must come first as that is where most of the population is. Therefore as Scotland is insignificant, Scottish industries will get chucked under the bus first.

It's not about regions, its about industries. The interests of the Edinburgh financial markets are aligned with those in London. The Scottish fishing industry, or farmers, or manufacturers, or anything else have the same concerns as those from the rest of the UK. Why would the issues be treated any differently depending on where the business happened to be located? What industry is Scotland involved in that isn't also represented elsewhere in the UK?

Except now they won't, as the EU wouldn't accept that as the risk of Scotland becoming independent is too high.

I genuinely don't understand what you mean by this.

[ItsAllGoingToBeFine]

I genuinely don't understand what you mean by this.

As a made up example:

UK: We'll give you access to Scottish fishing waters, if you give us X.

EU. Er, no. Scotland is likely to be independent at some point soon, so I don't think your offer has any value as once Scotland becomes.independent that will be outwith your control. And by the way if you keep pushing we will have a nice chat with the Scots about their EU entry

[Y0uCann0tBeSer10us]

You're expecting the negotiating team to offer up Scottish resources specifically on a plate?

You don't think it's more realistic that the UK will offer say 20% of all UK fishing stocks across the board in return for X?

[Notwhatiexpected]

I saw this on the BBC news earlier, an EU politician saying Scotland does meet all the criteria for membership?

www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1256173704419801&id=100000815504652

Can you see that link?

[ItsAllGoingToBeFine]

You don't think it's more realistic that the UK will offer say 20% of all UK fishing stocks across the board

Nope. Because that would.mean pissing off the English voters which are greater in number and therefore of greater importance.

[ItsAllGoingToBeFine]

And of course (the non-reserved) fishing and agricultural powers will not be coming back to Scotland.

[Y0uCann0tBeSer10us]

"Nope. Because that would.mean pissing off the English voters which are greater in number and therefore of greater importance."

Well, there's not much to say to that except that I disagree. It's too much conspiracy theory for my tastes.

[Y0uCann0tBeSer10us]

"Nope. Because that would.mean pissing off the English voters which are greater in number and therefore of greater importance."

Well, there's not much to say to that except that I disagree. It's too much conspiracy theory for my tastes.

[Notwhatiexpected]

Another EU voice saying the same thing:

www.heraldscotland.com/news/15086444._No_reason__independent_Scotland_would_fail_to_join_EU/

I understand the Spanish foreign minister who said last week that Scotland couldn't join was from a minority gov, anti Catalan party, so he has a bias, but can Spain alone veto?

Would a definite yes from the EU make a difference to your vote?

[Y0uCann0tBeSer10us]

Apologies for double posting!

[Y0uCann0tBeSer10us]

Would a definite yes from the EU make a difference to your vote?

No. Even if we could get back into the EU it would be unlikely to be on favourable terms, and it in no way compensates for the disaster that leaving the UK would be. (Plus, I actually, quite like being British.)

[LassWiTheDelicateAir]

But I actually disagree with the premise of you question, that the needs of Scotland are massively different to anywhere else in the UK. If there are specific industries that would like consideration, then they can make representations as others have been doing from elsewhere in the UK

Absolutely spot on.

The interests of the Edinburgh financial markets are aligned with those in London

Exactly- I don't get what this special Scottish need is- in what way are the concerns of say upland hill sheep farmers different if they are in Yorkshire, Wales or Scotland?

[PigletWasPoohsFriend]

I understand the Spanish foreign minister who said last week that Scotland couldn't join was from a minority gov, anti Catalan party, so he has a bias, but can Spain alone veto?

I believe so. It has to be a yes from all members.

[ItsAllGoingToBeFine]

Would a definite yes from the EU make a difference to your vote?

I think it would make a lot of difference to people. It is much easier to vote for a certain outcome

I wrote that and then remembered Brexit. Logically it might make a difference, but people seem to vote so.irrationally a lot of the time

[Piffpaffpoff]

I have just learned from the news that it's the SNP conference this weekend. Wow, that's coincidental isn't it??

[LassWiTheDelicateAir]

Would a definite yes from the EU make a difference to your vote?

No. I would rather be part of the UK.

No. Even if we could get back into the EU it would be unlikely to be on favourable terms, and it in no way compensates for the disaster that leaving the UK would be. (Plus, I actually, quite like being British.)

So true.

[QueenLaBeefah]

If I had to choose between the UK and the EU I would choose the UK. Why on Earth Sturgeon thought I would opt for independence is beyond me - I've been called a quisling, yoon, traitor, ref Tory etc. Why the SNP keyboard warriors thought that insulting anyone who disagreed with them would make them change their voting habits is also very puzzling too.