Second referendum part 2

[Gighasmokedhalibutisawesome]

Any appetite for a continuance or have I missed the new thread?
There was quite a heated squabble respectful exchange of views so I am sure there is more to be said......

[Thegruffalowswife]

And your blind selfishness runs the risk if stirring up problems in anot her part of the country that has already seen complete devastation not very long ago.

[BaggyCheeks]

Who's said that unionists in Scotland would take up arms? My point was that IndyRef2 is being used by Adams and SF to publicise their plan for United Ireland. Are you suggesting that active campaigning for United Ireland wouldn't cause issues in NI, and likely ugly ones? I hadn't actually said which "side" of my family were on, but I can assure you that for all they are supportive of a United Ireland, they're more supportive of peace on all sides.

[BaggyCheeks]

Oh wait, just saw Gruffalow's last post. I don't think that sort of sensationalism helps anyone. If Scotland does go independent, while there'd be people who were unhappy with it, I sincerely doubt there'd be violent uprising.

[tabulahrasa]

" If Scotland does go independent, while there'd be people who were unhappy with it, I sincerely doubt there'd be violent uprising."

Well given there was violence from unionists after they got the result they wanted last time, actually I'd not write it off.

[Thegruffalowswife]

SCOTLAND’S MOVEMENT FOR INDEPENDENCE AND INTERNATIONALISM should be embraced by the European establishment as a way of standing up the “nationalism” and “nationalists in London”, according to an Austrian author addressing a historic sitting of the European Parliament.

London nationalism? Utter bollocks. Try and find someone in london that was born there. London is a city not a nation fgs...

This guy is a nobody an "author" what he says will mean nothing in europe. It really is ridiculous.

I think, like sturgeon many think there is something valiant in their posturing and stirring. Irish people know better.I hope she shuts up. There is no cause in scotland to start this.

[Fontella]

So what I'm hearing is that in the event of a united Ireland, loyalist unionists would take up arms, and in the event of an independent Scotland, unionists would take up arms? Is that right? What is it about unionists that we are all to do exactly as we're told in case they decide to take up arms?

Nyx no-one has said that that I can see. Where on earth have you got that from?

The fact is that in Northern Ireland both sides took up arms - a long and bloody conflict in which many innocent people died, that achieved absolutely nothing. It is to the Scots credit that it hasn't happened there and isn't likely to is it? I watched the videos of both sides taunting each on Glasgow's streets after the last Independence referendum but nothing like the armed conflict of N.I.

Even if Wales, we had a campaign of cottage burning and so on, so I think it is very much to the Scots credit that it hasn't descended into violence.

[Calyx72]

Baggycheeks- Gruffalo says 'a vote for yes is a vote for death'. There was a discussion and it was mooted that the near 50/50 split between yes and no for Scotland's independence means a referendum can't be held without, well, deaths

I hope and believe that's not the case in Scotland and hope that Ireland can stay away from conflict.

[Calyx72]

Tabula I was going to mention the violence from Unionists after they won the vote but forgot.

[Fontella]

Sorry about all the typos, I'm trying to work and post on here!!!

[Thegruffalowswife]

I would hope not too, but it is hardly beyond the realm of possibility. I wouldn't risk it. There is nothing wrong with scotland.

Add that to people feeling massively aggrieved by her lack of acceptance of democracy and god only knows the damage she is causing to scotland and to ireland stirring up all kinds of old divisions.

[NoLotteryWinYet]

do you have sources for your violence from unionists? The only violence I heard about was Mhairi saying she felt like it...

[Calyx72]

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/sep/19/violence-glasgow-scotland-loyalists-attack-independence-supporters

The arrests were of Unionists although it says both sides were involved

[Calyx72]

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/glasgows-george-square-turns-ugly-4290576

Mirror I know but there's a video

[Calyx72]

indyref2.scot/are-uber-unionists-threatening-violence-in-the-event-of-indyref2

[Thegruffalowswife]

You have deliberately AGAIN removed what I said from context.

I can't be arsed to go in to it again, but I was clear that trying to pull a country out of the UK without public support is very dangerous. It didn't work well in ireland.

There were also divisive campaigns in yugoslavia and look how that went.

Nicola sturgeon is playing with fire.

She wasn't in 2014, but her behaviour now towards the uk government I believe is very very dangerous.

[Calyx72]

Sorry Gruffalo I just couldn't help the phrase! I did say about our resulting discussion and how it's the close split leading to possible tension. Sorry

[BaggyCheeks]

Fair point Calyx. I would say that in the context of Glasgow, though, those scenes are more like a glorified football hooligans' night out rather than representative of the vast majority of Scotland, both Yes and No voting.

[NoLotteryWinYet]

"It's on both sides," he said. "The city is divided by religion already and to be honest I think the union jacks and saltires are a bit of an excuse.

I fear that another indyref will be even more divisive and hard fought, but I hope it doesn't descend into proper violence this time round.

[trixymalixy]

IIRC it was literally football hooligans baggycheeks.

[Thegruffalowswife]

Yes pmsl not much to see.

[tabulahrasa]

"do you have sources for your violence from unionists? The only violence I heard about was Mhairi saying she felt like it..."

Are you kidding? It was in every paper and every news programme...


"I would say that in the context of Glasgow, though, those scenes are more like a glorified football hooligans' night out rather than representative of the vast majority of Scotland, both Yes and No voting."

Yes, but, if flag burning, throwing flares into crowds and kicking off at the public and police is how some people reacted to getting the result they wanted, you can't exactly rule out a violent reaction if it went the other way.

[Fontella]

A year since Holyrood passed any legislation

Iain Gray (Scottish Labour education spokesman):

"It is a damning indictment of the SNP's obsession with separation that Holyrood hasn't passed any legislation for a year.

And the fact that this anniversary comes on the day the Scottish Parliament debates independence yet again tells you everything you need to know about the SNP government’s priorities.

The Scottish Parliament has major powers over tax, social security, education, health care, policing, local services and much more.

But instead of taking urgent action to close the gap between the richest and the rest in our classrooms, or tackling the growing NHS crisis, the Nationalists have focused all their energies on imposing another referendum on the people of Scotland."

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/22/scottish-msps-vote-second-referendum-nicola-sturgeon-urged-delay/

[Thegruffalowswife]

Let me be clear. This is not a negotiated referendum like 2014.

This is an illegal referendum called by someone sabotaging the interests of the uk's negotiations and threatening to fuck with their defences.

[Thegruffalowswife]

My family member said waving the St George's cross even in england would be inciting violence so...

[Thegruffalowswife]

Didn't have to reach for a tabloid for that.