Second referendum part 2

[Gighasmokedhalibutisawesome]

Any appetite for a continuance or have I missed the new thread?
There was quite a heated squabble respectful exchange of views so I am sure there is more to be said......

Morning. Sobered up now please excuse my silly behaviour yesterday evening. I'll not be snogging anyone I still care what happens to you whichever way you vote.

To the poster returning from parliment yesterday, please do keep us posted on what is going on.

Back to work.

We buy £23bn p.a. more from the UK than they buy from us and you 'don't think they are very keen to do a deal?

Remember they are way bigger than us. Proportionally any impact will be far greater on us.

fullfact.org/europe/uk-eu-trade/

Btw that as fontella and she meant to say from the eu but she was sleepy.

If you can't get a bit drunk and post on mumsnet what's the point? Hope your head isn't too sore!

Yes it is.

They will be mindful of our contribution to NATO and to intelligence.

They've already had a knock with the donald being skeptical.

Regardless of the size we are still one of the largest economies.

A poor deal would be most negative to Germany and other big players because we buy significantly more frim them than they sell to us. They will also be well aware that the commodities are not in short suppy and we could easily buy Japanese cars etc. They will be very keen to keep trading with us.

We as the uk are not seriously talking about fucking with their security or sabotaging their trade deals with other nations.

Let me be clear that this IS what scotland are doing and that WILL hamper any chances of scotland getting a good deal for leaving the uk.

Above post was for it'sall.

Head is fine strangely

From about 8 pm my posts just went a bit nuts

It may come as a surprise, but all around the uk scotland (and yes the snp claims to be all of us) are being seen as the worst kind of traitors.

The reason for that is because of what the SNP are actually doing. Nothing to do with "the media"

In my view the greens are the worst, for supporting them. They sure as hell have no mandate to do so.

Anyway... got to do some work now.

Will check in later incase our parliment insider can fill us in on anything.

Please god let the news be good.

Following the rugby last week..

Do you think that if the greens vote with the SNP en masse today they are dead in the water? During the GE debates on here, quite a few people voted green specifically because they didn't want to vote for the snp. If the greens are going to vote with the snp and renege on their promise of voting for yet another referendum only if the population of Scotland wanted it (and polls suggest the majority don't) they're going to piss off many of their supporters.

I know a few pissed off greens yes.

I am getting bugger all done this morning. I keep coming back to this forum and checking the news. I can not stress enough how important this issue is for my family and our livelihood. Worried doesn't cover it. Just saw the 4000 businesses comment pffft....

Can I just say... what is the point in 2 days of debate? We were already told the position the snp and the greens would be taking.

I am sure you have all seen this but thought I'd add it anyway.

www.heraldscotland.com/news/15172016.Tycoon_vows_not_to_invest_in_Scotland_while_new_independence_referendum_beckons/?ref=ebln

Can't believe some people want to sabotage Brexit negotiations with indyref2 but still think it won't affect Scotland. This strikes me as very naive (and I know very little about evonomics).

Also, why isn't anyone discussing the future of the EU in general? There is a massive assumption that the EU itself is something stable and surefooted. Surely everything is now in flux, partly because of Brexit but not wholly be a use of it. Whether you support Brexit or not, surely it is self evident that the EU is now going to change somewhat, given its losing one of its richest members.

Ok so it doesn't seem like alex Neil is too in to the idea either.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.express.co.uk/news/uk/782229/nicola-sturgeon-scottish-independence-referendum-snp-alex-neil/amp

Yes I know it is the express, but it is the only paper I can find reporting it the quotations are accurate. I watched him say it on the live feed so...

So if sillars and Mr Niel understand the concept... Why is Niel voting for it? The fact is that people do not want it and them pushing like this makes the SNP look like fanatical extremists.

I am not one of these people who could NEVER be convinced about independence.

My heart is not in it and at the moment neither is my head. If there was a good financial case I would support it if there was majority will to do so. This loses the SNP and the greens any scrap of integrity they ever had trying to push this through against the will of the Scottish people and would put me off ever supporting anything with their name on it.

Also, why isn't anyone discussing the future of the EU in general? There is a massive assumption that the EU itself is something stable and surefooted. Surely everything is now in flux, partly because of Brexit but not wholly be a use of it. Whether you support Brexit or not, surely it is self evident that the EU is now going to change somewhat, given its losing one of its richest members.

This

Morning All.

Gruff there's nothing wrong with the Express if they are reporting actual events.

The problem with the Express is the inaccurate spin they put on the headlines then when you get down to the nitty gritty of the article it's nothing like the headline suggests.

They are a self-avowed Brexit paper, so all their articles are slanted that way of course - but the good part of that is that they do report stuff about EU related matters, that others don't bother with.

So I don't mind the Express because it doesn't pretend to be anything it isn't ,so when you go on there, you know exactly what it is and what you are going to get. What I don't like is news outlets that claim to be 'impartial' and 'unbiased' when they are anything but.

I've got to get some work done this morning, but I will try and get back on later.

Do you guys think May can/should ignore if the Scottish Parliament votes to ask for S30 as expected?

Sorry meant to say good morning

The problem with the Express is the inaccurate spin they put on the headlines then when you get down to the nitty gritty of the article it's nothing like the headline suggests.

All tabloids do this. I completely agree.

I try not to post from tabloids, but often they provide information that I have decided is accurate based on other sources which are much drier and more difficult to grasp for many.

I posted this from the guardian www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/law/2017/mar/14/employers-can-ban-staff-from-wearing-headscarves-european-court-rules the other day as it was accurate based on other information I have read from drier sources. Mostly what I read in the guardian I consider spin too

I do not write things off completely based on their source, particularly where photographs and direct quotations are concerned.

Just another quickie,

Scottish Historian Sir Tom Devine, has said that the SNP has only another '4 years' of political dominance in which to secure independence. He is an independence supporter by the way. (He actually said '5 years' as he was speaking in 2016 - but I have changed it obviously).

They have been in power for 10 years and by the time of the next Scottish Parliament elections in 2021, it will have been 14. He (and others) believe that they have peaked and are in decline, so their political dominance will come to an end then and they will lose seats, thereby making it very, very difficult for them to push through any further referendums.

So this is why they are so desperate to do it now because they know it may be their last chance. Brexit has given them the heaven sent excuse to do it, and that is why they are hell bent on pushing it through now. They don't really care if Theresa May delays the actual date - they just want it through the Scottish Parliament while they can still muster up a majority.

Makes sense when you think about it?

I find the photographs of this man on the campaign trail completely legitimate.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.express.co.uk/news/uk/780829/SNP-shame-extreme-right-activist-Neo-Nazi-sympathiser-Konrad-Rekas-Zmiana/amp

I do not care who got hold of them.

Fontella yes I have seen that and agree with everything in it. It's another reason I'm saying if this doesn't happen then it's completely done.

Yes I think the cracks in their ability to govern on education and health will unravel their support by then. They can only hold that debate off for so long with indyref

Makes sense if you want your small country to be treated as disdainfull traitors by the rest of the uk when you succeed yes...