Second referendum announced!

[Isadora2007]

😳

Will your vote change next time?

Calyx - why don't you find out? The economy is fundamental.

ItsAll the SNP refuse to raise tax. They wouldn't even reinstall the top rate of 50% for highest earners. They recognise that the highest earners are the most mobile and will leave.

Also, if the plan under independence is to rejoin the EU, then Scotland's going to give up a fair few of those levers as well isn't it? All the monetary ones for a start.

Greece has been buggered by its membership of the single currency, and Scotland's economy is in a worse state than Greece's.

I have found out enough to know Scotland will do better when independent thanks.

Latin the number of high earners in Scotland means there's not much good raising their tax. They did vote to not lower it and my god what howls there were in the press and from Kez and Ruth et Al. The powers they have are a poisoned chalice and only with independence can Scotland sort things out.

In my opinion.

the SNP refuse to raise tax.

That is something I am pretty unhappy about, although it is worth noting that they still don't have full control of income tax (i think?)

Also, if the plan under independence is to rejoin the EU, then Scotland's going to give up a fair few of those levers as well isn't it?

The "if" is quite important.

And even if in EU would have far more control over "levers" than under WM.

The control of agriculture and fishing and so on seem to be going to Westminster after Brexit in any case. I'd rather they stayed where they were or failing that, come to an independent Scotland.

I think she has been reading "the dummies guide to economics by karl marx" again

Calyx72 why do you think Scotland will do better when independent?
And what do you think about the fact the SNP doesn't allow dissent?

Who me Gruffalo? You're so funny

calyx the SNP will be negotiating independence - even if they say they will have an election after a Yes vote...I wouldn't believe them. (once in a generation, a vote for a SNP MSP isn't a vote for Indy2 etc etc) Plus they are likely to be riding a tide... over 50% of the people must have backed 'them'.
nyx lack of an effective opposition is a problem for the whole of the UK - but the SNP 'splitting the vote' isn't helping solve that problem...
I am not a 'would never breakup the Union person' - if it made sense economically/socially to do so I would back it ( not under the current SNP though - as I think they are incompetent...). But at the moment it doesn't add up at all -worse than 2014.
Brexit doesn't really come into the argument - we can't turn the clock back...so it is how we go forward that matters...
Thinking Scotland as an independent nation are going to get a good deal from the EU is wishful thinking. As things stand it seems we would be taking out more than we put in ...not an attractive option (especially as they will have lost one of their biggest net contributors). Some people in the EU want to ditch Greece - at least from the Euro ...and we have an even bigger deficit (and what currency would we use? - Would we want to be tied to the Euro - which is looking shaky to say the least....tied some really unstable looking economies.
The EU are also dictating austerity etc to Greece as part of their bail out arrangements... it won't be WM it will be Brussels.

The brexit argument for a single market option- we would pay in but have no say under the rules, no border controls, still have to follow the rules.... was dismissed as being worse than being a full member of the EU by Remainers (summed up here www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/oct/28/the-norway-option-what-is-it-and-what-does-it-mean-for-britain ) - so why does Scotland now want to go down that road?
I think I would take my chances on a hard brexit as part of the Union rather than the soft option with even less influence...

itsall - on tax raising powers from the BBC:

What powers did Scotland get in 1999?
When the Scottish Parliament was created 17 years ago it was given the power to put up or cut income tax by 3p in the pound. That power has never been used.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-35866776

if any of our yes vote are SNP members that believe themselves to be in any way socialist, please contact your local SNP rep and complain about the above and stop talking about tory austerity.

I didn't think i was being nasty Calyx, just fed up of that glib line being trotted out with no knowledge behind it.

You know that not that long ago the SNP said exactly the opposite about higher rate tax payers. How do you square that against their change of direction?

I would expect a good proportion of the already small number of highest rate tax payers in Scotland to leave in the event of independence.

I think I would take my chances on a hard brexit as part of the Union rather than the soft option with even less influence

Me too. I didn't think it would be possible for me to be committed to the Union but the naked, selfish opportunism coupled with the pro - indy posts on here have achieved it.

Hattiesbackpack I have read and talked and listened until I do believe it. I can't predict because no-one can. All the figures to date show Scotland in the UK not what could happen. I have to vote for independence for self governance for Scotland and not just for economic reasons.

It's seen as being a dummy in some parts but I'm not the only one.

If the SNP weren't a united front in the face of relentless bias and hatred and desperate Unionists and so on - there would be no chance of independence for Scotland.

Itsall, what do you expect the government of an independent scotland to do differently with those "levers" to make scotland better off than it is now?

$50 approx a barrel just now. BP costs are under $40, with a target as low as $28 to extract.

I didn't think it would be possible for me to be more committed to the Union.

Oh and please drop the victim card- if that is the best excuse you can come up

Each company has varying extraction costs though.

Queen "why don't you find out? The economy is fundamental"~
Somebody tell David Davis that then please.

Calyx , I am effin' off as you wish.

Sorry I lost my temper. I do feel the upper echelons of the SNP are psychologically manipulating people. It angers me. But tbh I accept it is patronising of me to concern myself with the beliefs of grown ups.

I wish you well (and i am keeping away from indyref in future!)

That should say the cost varies among oil operators.

Nicola's toys are out the pram.......

Springy yes sorry too