Second referendum announced!

[Isadora2007]

😳

Will your vote change next time?

equality between each country would be disproportionate representation based on the number of people in that country

The EU seems to manage ok So Scotland is more of a colony then, than an equal party in a union.

If we vote together for a party that represents the needs of scotland and some similar areas of england (like the north and the south west) and Wales and Northern Ireland we stand a very good chance of making headway at Westminster.

But party would ever do that? As so many people have pointed out, England has a massive population compared to the other countries, which is concentrated in the SE. So how do you win an election? You appeal to the areas of greatest population ie the SE of England. And by choosing to appeal to that area you tend to forget about other areas. Parties want power, not to do good.

Fontella - I will vote SNP for councils because all the other parties and candidates aren't in the least use in my opinion. Labour run councils have shown themselves to be corrupt and not in the interests of the people in their areas.

I predict a rise in Conservative votes though as a result of both disillusion with Labour and of unionists having no-one better to vote for as SNP votes will most likely be celebrated by independence supporters even if the voter wasn't for independence.

Is the labour vote predicted to collapse bearing in mind indyref2 or was that a previous prediction

I think it is based more on their collapse in the Scottish parliament elections.

How is Scotland a colony?

Yes I reckon they will come round to the conservatives. Thatcher is long gone now fgs... Tory is just still a sweary word that's all. It's ok to think it and do it ( just not if anyone sees you) Ruth Davidson is representing me very well at the moment, she is a strong match for Nikki.

Nolotterywin- I'm not the SNP and they, I expect, do have some scholars on the case. I just thought that article was food for thought and relevant.

I feel as though everything independence supporters (well me and others on this and other MN threads) say is patronised rather than discussed or debated. It's hard not to get annoyed. Just my feelings and nothing to jump on me about.

So Scotland is more of a colony then,

No it's just that 1 scottish person is not 10× more important than 1 english person.

In independent Scotland 1 Scottish vote would not have anything at all to do with what other Countries vote. As it should be.

The labour party represented scottish interests for many years and also many many people from the rest of the union.

No it's just that 1 scottish person is not 10× more important than 1 english person

I think this all comes down, as folk have said, to disparity in population. It isn't fair for 1 Scottish person to have the same influence as 10 English people. Equally, it isn't fair for one country to have absolutely power over another country, when they are supposed to be in a union.

The only answer to this conundrum is for Scotland to become independent.

Yet again that cognitive dissonance that brexit will be an economic disaster but independence won't .

I thought the most telling thing about the ullman sketch was the nats reaction to it.

Thanks all, really interesting responses.

I find it rather sad that traditional Labour voters with Labour values have to vote Conservative as the only way of registering any kind of protest against the SNP.

So you have to do a 360 degree turn - just to try and stop the juggernaut.

What, if you don't mind me asking is the reason for Labour's collapse in Scotland? Obviously it predates Corbyn. Don't shoot me ... but I've been watching a few youtube videos of Kezia Dugdale and she comes across ok to me. Is she/they that bad?

The only answer to this conundrum is for Scotland to become independent.

In you opinion

In my opinion too

Who is telling you that you are being patronised Calyx? It's a cult love, leave while you can..

Yet again that cognitive dissonance that brexit will be an economic disaster but independence won't

I don't think either will be particularly great for the economy. It's trying to figure out the lesser of two evils.

In you opinion

How would you solve it? (Genuine question, not a dig)

Calyx I'm genuinely trying to understand how the SNP get away without being held to proper account, it's terrifying to me as it's obvious what mainly drives me is believing independence to be a very bad outcome for the Scottish people. I wish I knew how to persuade you or other yes voters. Trying to find the right lever. You are brave to keep coming back on this thread when it's clear there is a pro-Union consensus here and I am not patronizing you - I am not sure I'd have the reverse level of bravery, even anonymously.

I can move, both DH and I can work anywhere in Europe or America but we want to stay in a viable Scotland...

In my opinion too

It wasn't the country's opinion in 2014 however and I'm not convinced it will be this time either.

There could always be a neverendum 2022 however.

I am getting a bit sick and tiered of the 'this is all to do with Brexit' line though. It completely misses the fact that Sturgeon lifelong ambution and the SNP whole existence is for independence. If it wasn't Brexit it would be some other reason. Let's not kid ourselves differently.

Fontella I do quite like Kezia Dugdale but she looks knackered - she just isn't as scrappy as Davidson or display the same passion. I'd probably still vote labour if JC wasn't at the helm, he's destroying the PLP and he's the main reason really I can't vote for them, the Kezia/Ruth thing aside.

I'm sorry, but this is one country and has been for centuries.

Scotland joined the union because it buggered up massively trying to colonise elsewhere and ended up broke. The union stepped in and reimbused scots using uk taxes. Scottish people then made the best of the uk colonies and made a fortune from it in trading sugar and tobacco and cotton.

I get really pissed off with the colonisation bollocks.

Prior to this you were in competition with england. It was like trying to fight with someone 10 x your size. Why the hell do you want to do that again?

The idiocy of trying to break the union is really beyond me.

What, if you don't mind me asking is the reason for Labour's collapse in Scotland?

As a brainwashed independence supporter it seems to me that it started when Scotland gotnirs own government. What the people wanted from the Scottish parliament was different to what the rUK wanted. "Scottish" labour (ironically) was massively constrained and told what to do by Labour in England, they simply couldn't split away. Labour in Scotland has always been very "old' labour, whereas in WM it's very much new labour and moving further and further to the right.

Nail in the coffin was labour standing shoulder to shoulder with the Tories in the last IndyRef, telling Scots they were "too wee, too poor, too stupid"

So itsall, if you think both are bad economically then has it not occurred to you that dealing with both at the same time would be a double whammy and pretty idiotic? Scotland will be affected by brexit whether or not it is independent.

I'm a no voter but voted remain. I cannot believe the arrogance of Nicola Sturgeon's thinking that it would turn me into a yes voter.

I like Kezia but I'm unconvinced she has much conviction. She comes across as a harassed middle manager implementing unpopular decisions from the higher ups and awaiting her next instruction.

Ruth is an absolute bulldog, a true politician in every sense of the word who holds her views passionately. But I will never vote for a Conservative.

It's a feckin nightmare.