Second referendum announced!

[Isadora2007]

😳

Will your vote change next time?

Nyx - normal and poorer? Voting to lose Barnett subsidies so you can be free and living standards can fall freely whilst you struggle to pay for an increasing budget deficit? It might be normal but not desirable to make your country worse off in economic terms.

That's a matter of opinion

I just honestly don't understand that, ItsAll. I'm not trying to be difficult, I just can't get my head around it.

I don't see how folk think an independent Scotland could work without a massive massive drop in living standards for everyone. Can you explain?

To me the figures didn't add up, at all, in 2014, and they definitely don't know. Every economic pointer has Scotland performing worse than rUK. How would this change come independence?

don't now not don't know, sorry

Yes it would - but you can't take Scotland and Northern Ireland out of the equation.

Thanks for explaining

It would seem that WM has told the Scottish parliament they are not allowed the referendum anyway...

I hear that May is set to rule out another referendum altogether this afternoon, I really hope she does.

There will be tantrums of the like you have never seen before and I expect they will hold a referendum anyone that No voters will ignore so there will be unanimous yes result that the rest of the world will refuse to recognise but ultimately Sturgeon will have to suck it up!

Scotland could be independent. It would just be so much worse off than it is now.

I take it you're a deficit denier?

Yep it's on BBC now. Blimey. That'll wind up Nicola to boiling point.

£1.7 trillion UK deficit and rising.

Scotland can manage well with all taxes and duties staying in Scotland and especially if not having to pay for trident and other projects like HS2 and buck palace. We would have the economic levers to grow our economy.

We could be a normal small country with good resources.

bathshe
I agree strongly with you that we are not homogenous. And while I want to believe the Nats "Utopia" of course we all see that is aspirational at best. But surely, surely, all political parties are guilty of such aspirational rhetoric? The Prime Minister often sounds more left wing than the SWP on values of inclusion and equality!
What politician has ever declared their party's goal is an "unfairer society"? We need to look behind the rhetoric to the manifestos and policies. But good luck for all of us with that, right now.

Ah the good old "levers". What levers and what would you do with them to make Scotland grow faster than the Uk?

Have you compared the percentage deficit of the UK and Scotland?

i fear Sturgeon'll be loving it, yet more grandstanding on the news outlets. May isn't saying no, she's saying not now, not a bad answer really Scotland do need to know the actual deal and better facts before the vote.

The word there is COULD.

Now is not the time. I am not saying we shouldn't have a vote but we need to let Brexit happen. Once that has done then it could be revised then.

If NS gets a vote next year and YES won I hope she is prepared to have to wait years for us to leave as the UK government needs to concentrate on Brexit and getting the UK up and running in it's new form outside Europe. We had our vote in 2014 we would take a back seat and can not expect the UK government to drop the rest of the UK to negotiate the breakup of the UK that's is not fair on the other nations.

Calyx Scotland's deficit is worse than England's.

Scotland is highly reliant on one industry - oil.

Do you not think Scotland will have to have any sort of defence budget?

What do you think will be the cost of duplicating all of Westminster's government agencies will be?

This will be excellent news for Sturgeon! She's happiest when campaigning and seems to have given up entirely on her day job.

Trixy I'm not an economist. I don't know

Latin - Scotland has more than oil.

You don't know. What a surprise.

"Levers" we don't have full control of (non exhaustive list I am sure)

(Revenue raising)

Income tax
VAT
National Insurance Contributions
North Sea oil and gas revenue (geographical share)
Corporation tax
Fuel duties
Capital gains tax
Inheritance tax
Tobacco duties
Interest and dividends
Alcohol duties
Other taxes and royalties
Vehicle excise duty
Rent and other current transfers
Export Duties
Other taxes on income and wealth
Insurance premium tax
Betting and gaming duties
Climate change levy
The Crown Estate including shoreline and 11 miles out to sea (affecting wave and tidal power revenues)
Quantitive easing (printing new money) (Currently outsourced to the independent Bank of England MPC)
Issuing government bonds (Currently outsourced to the independent Bank of England MPC)
Setting interest rates to control inflation (Currently outsourced to the independent Bank of England MPC)
The ability to regulate banks and lenders. (currently under review at a UK/ EU / Global level)

(Spending)

Defence.
International development
Financial and economic matters
Trade and industry
Social security
Employment policy
Control of Government Borrowing, currently interest payments on the UK debt costs Scotland £4.1bn a year.

We have lots of oil that currently costs more to extract than it does to sell.

That sound is the clatter of a million yesser's dummies being spat out at the news they're not getting their indyref2 any time soon!

Trixy - so what? Just because I don't know doesn't mean Scotland wouldn't manage and thrive. No need to be nasty.

Thanks Itsall. There's more than I thought there!

May isn't saying no, she's saying not now, not a bad answer really Scotland do need to know the actual deal and better facts before the vote

2018/2019 is not "now" The terms of the exit should be pretty clear by then ( if we.are.not going for simply crashing out)

In fact N Ireland and Wales are also now talking about independence themselves.

They can talk about it all they like. There's not a cat in hell's chance of Wales become independent. Such a prospect is utterly laughable.

You do know how many Nat MPs Wales has don't you? 3. They used to have 4 back in my day. Out of 40.

They are the third party on the Welsh Assembly, behind Labour and the Conservatives and UKIP aren't far off them.

Once upon a time, I was a fervent Plaid supporter and had a great deal of admiration for many of them. But this lot now? Forget it.

Northern Ireland is a different matter entirely. Personally I think it should become part of a United Ireland but it's not for me to decide. It's for the people who live there and unfortunately for them - they too are divided.

Trixy I'm not an economist. I don't know

pmsl...If you were you might be able to see why we are all shitting it :)