Page 8 | Trigger Warning - Would this make you uncomfortable? (title edited by MNHQ at request of OP)

TheoTheopolis23 · 2023-05-15T09:58:34+00:00

I've been trying to process something that my relatively new bf did the first time we had (significant) sexual contact. One part of my brain is rationalising it and the other is uncomfortable about it. We had had sexual contact before but it was the first time we had oral sex (me on him). I initiated the oral sex. He didn't gag/thrust during it and climaxed pretty quickly; the thing that's made me uncomfortable is that he grabbed my head with both hands and held me on his dick when he did. I had neither decided to stay on it, or come off it, but obviously I hadn't really any choice when he did that. When he did that I don't think I pulled back or gave any strong indication that I wanted to come off it or wanted him to stop holding my head. To be honest he climaxed very fast and did that v quickly, it all happened very quickly. He let go as soon as he'd climaxed. I'm rationalising it by saying that it was an instinctive, automatic reaction on his part when he was climaxing..... But I still have this feeling of discomfort about it. Like, you shouldn't really do something like that without asking or warning the oral giver about it. It's quite forceful/lsvks consent (?) I'd be grateful for perspectives on this please. Afterward I jokingly referred to it (a bad habit of mine is to joke when I'm uncomfortable instead of saying how I really feel, though I had mixed feelings) and he just said he was (pleasantly) surprised when I starting giving oral without a word and extremely turned on etc. He didn't really comment on the "rightness" or not if grabbing someone head like that. He just seemed a bit sheepish).

Original poster

TheoTheopolis23 · 16/05/2023 10:58

Maybe I've misunderstood, but the quote above would be a turn off for me

I probably should have been more specific; I think he was saying that he doesn't use porn and replays previous memorable sexual encounters for masturbation - he gave the impression that these could be any previous encounter while single, but his most recent sexual encounters with his partner when seeing someone/in a relationship.

I did not find that a turn off/unreasonable because I guess that most people's "tools" for masturbation fall into roughly three categories; previous memorable sexual experiences, imaginary sexual scenarios, watching or reading porn material (and to what extent they keep it other people or project themselves into them, who knows).
So that didn't bother me.

It is ironic however that a man who doesn't really use porn, has apparently "naturally" done such a porn-y, verging on aggessive, use you like a sex toy, and not seek real consent thing.

This thread and all the posts has really helped in working this out; it was confusing and uncomfortable for me but I feel clearer in it now. I hope it's useful for other women too.

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MrsMigginsesPieShop · 16/05/2023 11:19

So many worrying comments on here. Consent can be withdrawn at any time, in any place, for any reason. It should be obvious that holding someone's head in place so they cant move and ejaculating into their mouth is not merely unacceptable, its illegal. It's not just a breach of sexual etiquette, its assault. The OP doesn't seem to have been traumatised by it, but it's entirely plausible that she could have been.

Even if it is down to naivety, it's not really an excuse. In any other situation would "I'm sorry I put you in a headlock, I didn't know I wasn't supposed to. Plus i really really wanted to" be a valid argument??? I also highly doubt that a) its the first time in his life he's done this and b) no-one else has ever mentioned it to him. Therfore he knows what he's doing is wrong, and he did it anyway.

Greycloudlooming · 16/05/2023 11:25

I don’t think you need to keep justifying yourself, OP.
If he is making you feel uncomfortable then you’re well within your rights to end things. I’m a firm believer of trusting your intuition and it seems yours is telling you to run?

I absolutely love having my head held while giving oral sex, I’m not trying to be some cool chick and I’m not submissive to the patriarchy or anything like that, it’s just what I like. However, I think with a new partner who I haven’t fully formed a trust bond with, even I would feel uncomfortable. I’m not surprised you feel violated and like some disposable cum guzzler. You’re 100% not to blame for how you feel and as for being told “you’re not completely innocent”, please ignore. You have done absolutely nothing wrong.

I can’t believe he didn’t apologise to you. I think so many men see stuff like this in porn that it’s normalised for them. Not many women do like it. Once you stated it wasn’t cool, he should have apologised, rather than acting sheepish and avoidant.

If he’d apologised and shown remorse, do you think you’d be feeling differently?

I am so sorry you had to experience that and then to post here and feel the need to justify why you feel the way you do xx

AreWeThereYet69 · 16/05/2023 11:25

OP I'm sorry this has happened to you.
I completely agree with @MrsMigginsesPieShop 's post above.
At no point is agreeing to OS the same as agreeing to allow someone to come in your mouth.
And the fact this happened when you're at the point of just getting to know each other sexually makes it worse. He had no idea whether you were in to that or not and clearly didn't care.
It is assault.
I think you should show him this thread!!
Some of the posts on this thread about consent are really shocking. And as the OP said, it's indicticative of why there are such low conviction rates for sexual assault around the world.
We have a long way to go

AntiSocial6DaysAWeek · 16/05/2023 11:29

It is ironic however that a man who doesn't really use porn, has apparently "naturally" done such a porn-y, verging on aggessive, use you like a sex toy, and not seek real consent thing.

When I read the OP my first thought was porn. Then you said he doesn't watch it yet still acted like that. Not that watching it would make it an excuse, obviously. I do think it is very telling though.

Original poster

TheoTheopolis23 · 16/05/2023 11:40

In any other situation would "I'm sorry I put you in a headlock, I didn't know I wasn't supposed to. Plus i really really wanted to" be a valid argument???

True, it's ridiculous.

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Original poster

TheoTheopolis23 · 16/05/2023 11:44

I also highly doubt that a) its the first time in his life he's done this and b) no-one else has ever mentioned it to him. Therfore he knows what he's doing is wrong, and he did it anyway.

I'm not making excuses for him, I don't think there is an excuse but give accurate, I don't get the impression his previous partners did OS much or at all.

And I would imagine they had sex fairly quickly and that became the default for both of them.

He mentioned he was the first partner one of his exes had ever tried OS on (she had only had one partner/husband before him).

I don't get the impression he's had much experience of women doing OS on him, at all, or certainly with any gusto/skill.

Still not an excuse though.

My ex had likewise had v little experience of OS done on him, and he did not do anything like that the first time or any time.

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Original poster

TheoTheopolis23 · 16/05/2023 11:47

It should be obvious that holding someone's head in place so they cant move and ejaculating into their mouth is not merely unacceptable, its illegal. It's not just a breach of sexual etiquette, its assault.

Thank you. This has really clarified things for me, amid the confusion/ambivalence from myself (and potentially from some posters).

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eatdrinkandbemerry · 16/05/2023 11:53

Wouldn't bother me personally as I've been with both men and women who have pushed my head down at the point of climax 🤷‍♀️
I think it's an automatic reaction if your really enjoying it.

roarfeckingroarr · 16/05/2023 12:06

I wouldn't be ok with that but could get past it if he apologised and never did it again. The pushy behaviour and sleeping in a different room would have me never see him again.

Outdamnspot23 · 16/05/2023 12:27

"he didn't want to irritate & offend me further by risking continuing sexual contact while sleepy/at all etc"

Sorry I know this has been done to death but - have a think about what you've said here.

He could have just chosen to either stay or pop to the bathroom and then come back and NOT continue sexual contact. You make it sound like sexual contact is something that might just happen by accident to him like the horndog fairy might swing by in the night.

If he GENUINELY didn't want to "irritate and offend you further" by, essentially, hassling you for sex, he could have.... just not hassled you for sex. Honestly, that is an option. Even if he got hard etc I'm sure you're mature enough to cope with a man lying beside you with a semi without being offended, as long as he wasn't pushing to shag you.

So I don't buy this from him at all.

Redebs · 16/05/2023 12:31

The holding the head thing is pretty awful. I wonder if it was him trying to make sure you didn't stop suddenly? Obviously a man has to risk losing a bit of pleasure at the end if his partner doesn't want to choke or swallow. The idea of being held in place so he can use your mouth regardless is a suffocating nightmare situation.

The second issue is confusing. I genuinely think that if you go round to his place, get into bed, start kissing and 'heavy petting', then it's reasonable for him to expect you're intending sex. Once he realised you didn't want to, he removed himself from the room so he wouldn't bother you. I don't think it's ok of you to initiate and continue arousal of you both, say that's as far as you want to go, then complain when he complies. Did you want to keep him next to you in an expectant state? That's not very fair on him. Consent cuts both ways.

Tellmeifimwrong · 16/05/2023 13:04

It's basically oral rape.

Tellmetoday · 16/05/2023 13:06

Redebs · 16/05/2023 12:31

The holding the head thing is pretty awful. I wonder if it was him trying to make sure you didn't stop suddenly? Obviously a man has to risk losing a bit of pleasure at the end if his partner doesn't want to choke or swallow. The idea of being held in place so he can use your mouth regardless is a suffocating nightmare situation.

The second issue is confusing. I genuinely think that if you go round to his place, get into bed, start kissing and 'heavy petting', then it's reasonable for him to expect you're intending sex. Once he realised you didn't want to, he removed himself from the room so he wouldn't bother you. I don't think it's ok of you to initiate and continue arousal of you both, say that's as far as you want to go, then complain when he complies. Did you want to keep him next to you in an expectant state? That's not very fair on him. Consent cuts both ways.

You are wrong.

Whilst having OS, as said before performing fallatio the op was in charge, at the point of climax, she wasn't, her consent was withdrawn, it's as simple as that. There should have been a resonable ammount of force for her to withdraw, pull away and not have to drink sperm.
Many women do not like to swallow sperm and many men know this, there should have been an option for her to move off and manoever, let her hand take over.

Op I would say if you ever encounter a male like this again be wary of playing fun sexual games such as spanking, handcuff games, they are the type to push it and then make light of it after the fact.

It does in fact show a cruelty in their nature, and similar traits can be shown in their relationships, men who cannot control themselves in arguments for example, you made me so angry I coudn't help myself for attacking you.
Your spidy senses are telling you this man is not a safe partner.

His behaviour by going into another room is also telling, this was no one night stand, this is the begginings of a new relationship, whereby it's fully acceptable to want to get to know one another by means of affection instead of sex, as you said pair bonding, but his departure from your room seems to have not been discused, he left you hanging.
It really isn't respect, it shows he is incapable of kind, loving affection when he doesn't get his own way.

This man through sex has shown you what kind of man he is, you can safely say you would be able to apply his lack of care during sex and pair bonding to be applied to his maturity and empathy within a relationship.

He's not a great catch and has the capability of being an unsupporting partner and he is the type of male to never recognise this, and there are a few males on this thread who are also ignorant of their innability to be a good partner, maybe that's why they're here, complaining about the degrees of consent.

The type of respect and care a man shows you during sex is an indicator of the man as a whole.

Tellmetoday · 16/05/2023 13:37

I will also say there are many women, especially younger women who confuse, innability to control sexual urges as a compliment of how desirable they are as women.

Much in the same way a woman feels wanted if their partner shows aggression towards other males, they do not see this behaviour as controlling and part of a males entitlement to ownership of women.

statementstate · 16/05/2023 13:38

To me it is quite simple... you are just getting to know what one another likes. Whoever he was with previously perhaps loved having her head held, and now you clearly don't you should vocalise it. If he does it again, then hat gives a reason for you to rethink whether you can continue seeing him.

How can we expect men to know what we like and what we don't? I know lots of women who consider themselves 'freaks in the sheets' for want of a better phrase. They like being dominated and boundaries to be crossed.

Be clear about how you like things, and either it is a match or it isn't. It isn't much deeper than that.

bd67thSaysReinstateLangCleg · 16/05/2023 14:43

Tellmetoday · 16/05/2023 13:37

I will also say there are many women, especially younger women who confuse, innability to control sexual urges as a compliment of how desirable they are as women.

Much in the same way a woman feels wanted if their partner shows aggression towards other males, they do not see this behaviour as controlling and part of a males entitlement to ownership of women.

It's the same illogical thinking that mistakes street harassment for genuine compliments.

Original poster

TheoTheopolis23 · 16/05/2023 14:45

I don't think it's ok of you to initiate and continue arousal of you both, say that's as far as you want to go, then complain when he complies. Did you want to keep him next to you in an expectant state?

You're making me repeat what I've already written, possibly more than once, but here goes anyway.

The first night I stayed over at his, we both "initiated kissing, cuddling, heavy petting - initially on a sofa. While still on the sofa, he asked me what we were going to use for contraception, I responded that I neither planned to nor wanted to have penetrative sex . He appeared to accept that. We returned to kissing and sexual contact there, and in the bedroom I was given to sleep in (not his bedroom). I felt he was still expecting/escalating the missing and heavy petting towards penetrative sex, and he may have asked again (I'm not 100% on that) at which point I reiterated that I did not intend otr want yo have penetrative sex, that his behaviour was starting to annoy me, and that I felt like trying to get a taxi, regardless of the cost, to my hometown 40 or more mins away. He then stopped and saud he'd sleep in his own room.

I did not object to him doing that, did not try to stop him and did not complain about it. I went to sleep when I could get to sleep.

I found it a bit weird. I have been with plenty of men who wouldn't have left the room and slept elsewhere just because they werent going to have penetrative sex that night. That is all. I was pleasant when I woke up next morning and so was he.

Is that clear enough?

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Original poster

TheoTheopolis23 · 16/05/2023 14:49

(I found it a bit weird and wondered about the implications for his self control (and what he wanted from the relationship) but not enough to stop seeing him. Until this incident).

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Original poster

TheoTheopolis23 · 16/05/2023 14:52

The holding the head thing is pretty awful. I wonder if it was him trying to make sure you didn't stop suddenly?

Yes, I'd say he realised he was going to climax (though didn't tell me) and wanted to make sure I wouldn't stop and wouldn't remove the stimulation or receptacle into which he was going to climax/ejaculate.

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Original poster

TheoTheopolis23 · 16/05/2023 14:56

Outdamnspot23 · 16/05/2023 12:27

"he didn't want to irritate & offend me further by risking continuing sexual contact while sleepy/at all etc"

Sorry I know this has been done to death but - have a think about what you've said here.

He could have just chosen to either stay or pop to the bathroom and then come back and NOT continue sexual contact. You make it sound like sexual contact is something that might just happen by accident to him like the horndog fairy might swing by in the night.

If he GENUINELY didn't want to "irritate and offend you further" by, essentially, hassling you for sex, he could have.... just not hassled you for sex. Honestly, that is an option. Even if he got hard etc I'm sure you're mature enough to cope with a man lying beside you with a semi without being offended, as long as he wasn't pushing to shag you.

So I don't buy this from him at all.

It may have been done to death, but you have actually added something useful/insightful for me ..... Because it's articulating why I thought his behaviour the first night was weird, avd had underlying discomfort, for lack of a better word, about what it meant about his character.

I dismissed it as "not everyone is the same, he was just trying to make sure he didn't hassle/annoy you further" etc., but yes, what's up with him that he can't just do that without having to put metres of distance between himself and the woman. I know plenty of men who could.

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Original poster

TheoTheopolis23 · 16/05/2023 14:57

Horndog fairy lol

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Original poster

TheoTheopolis23 · 16/05/2023 15:00

How can we expect men to know what we like and what we don't?

Maybe they should ask before head locking a woman and ejaculating into her mouth??

And when I say they, not all "they" because I e give OS to plenty of men before who didn't do that.

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Original poster

TheoTheopolis23 · 16/05/2023 15:01

Tellmetoday · 16/05/2023 13:37

I will also say there are many women, especially younger women who confuse, innability to control sexual urges as a compliment of how desirable they are as women.

Much in the same way a woman feels wanted if their partner shows aggression towards other males, they do not see this behaviour as controlling and part of a males entitlement to ownership of women.

Absolutely.

You're tempted to dismiss behaviour like the first night as how turned on he is by you; but it's much more likely to be about his character & "sexuality".

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Original poster

TheoTheopolis23 · 16/05/2023 15:04

@Tellmetoday

I really appreciate your posts, I think you're correct on all fronts.

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