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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

How do I explain in the nicest way possible - It's not me, it's your mother?

195 replies

SilverBoots · 17/04/2010 14:42

I'm 39 & DH is 59, I've 2 teenage sons from my previous marriage. DH hasn't been married before.

I am close to my family, DH is very close to his, especially his mum, to the point that their relationship takes priority over the relationship he has with me, my children & our 6 yo DS - early morning phone calls, holidays together, MIL insistence that she loves being with 'her boy' etc. She has 4 other children who live within a 50 mile radius of her, we live 200+ miles away.

It's becoming more & more of a problem with DH often driving the 200 miles to take her to doctors appointments (she has a bad back), take her car to the garage (that's where he is now). Our time as a family is limited due to our lifestyle & work commitments, we see each other at weekends & maybe a couple of evenings during the week.

I recently had a mmc, the mc started a few days before we were due to go on holiday. I stayed at home with the children, DH went on holiday with his mum - he didn't want to let her down (she knew about the mc).

I tend to be very blunt when I explain things, DH is more sensitive & prefers things to be wrapped in ribbons & bows. I need to tell him (again) that he is neglecting his family, his mum needs to realise that he can't drop everything to be with her, he's married, has commitments, a family of his own now. How do I get through to him in a non blunt way??

(friends comments have been - give him a kick, take a lover, suggest he moves in with his mum!)

OP posts:
SpeedyGonzalez · 18/04/2010 21:16

FWIW, re male hormonal response, as I said before, my friend has studied this stuff (at a very reputable and ground-breaking) institution) as part of her professional work. So she hasn't gleaned it from Men are from Mars, nor have I read the book so I haven't the foggiest what John Gray has to say on the matter. I also said "fight or flight response (IIRC)". I.e. I've already suggested that it could be something different from fight or flight, that I wasn't 100% sure that I'd recalled correctly whether it was that response my friend was referring to. Anyway it's well-documented that both men and women's hormonal make-up heavily influence our emotions and reactions, so with this in mind is it really such a controversial statement?

Silver, I've just re-read the post where you wrote that you've lost sight of who you are. This is very worrying. A good relationship should not do this to a person. It should be about supporting and enabling each person to thrive and be(come) the very best 'self' that they can be.

I agree with thumbwitch when she says you should consult your RL friends who know you both and know your relationship. It's likely that they may have insights which you are unable to see, which will help you understand your relationship and your DH better and to decide what's the best thing for you and your child. We only have the bare bones of information about your relationship on MN; the best we can do is offer you support and suggestions.

dittany · 18/04/2010 21:20

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SilverBoots · 18/04/2010 22:32

I've been reading through the posts.

DH came back earlier than planned (ears burning? guilt?)

We discussed things earlier tonight. I told him that its a shame that he is missing out on so much of his son's life. Care for his mum should be shared more equally between her DCs. (She's 80, mobile, can drive). I also told him that I felt he had been unsupportive regarding the mcs.

DH said I was asking him to abandon his mum, that I want to compete with her. Men react differently (the mars/venus argument?) & I'm being inconsiderate towards his feelings.

The thing that has really stung (as he knew full well) was his view that because we have different upbringings I don't understand attatchments & closeness to family like he does. I was fostered & then adopted at a very early age. If anything I value family life in a way that he can't understand.

Anyway, it ended as all our 'discussions' do with DH telling me (sarcastically) that I was right, he was evil, a bad father, a crap husband. I know at this point he expected me to say of course not, you are fantastic etc, but I didn't.

We have a house that we let out, its empty at the moment, he's staying there tonight.

I don't feel that I'm getting anywhere.

OP posts:
lavenderbongo · 18/04/2010 22:45

I am so sorry SilverBoots but I think you handled that in that in the only way you could. He has not got his priorities right at all.

I love my parents but my children and husband come above everyone else and my DH agrees. I told my dh what your husband did during your mc and he thought it was apalling - as any normal person would.

I think as others have said you need to start thinking about your and your sons future. It doesnt look like your husband considers either of you at all.

I think you are making progress - you are giving your husband the chance to make ammends and making it clear how you feel. If he doesnt step up then thats his loss - and its a big loss! Start looking after yourself and thinking about whats best for you and your son.

swallowedAfly · 18/04/2010 23:01

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Message withdrawn

SilverBoots · 18/04/2010 23:16

swallowedAfly - yes, there is a socio-economic inequality. DH is 'old money', spent all his inheritance & went from pushbike (when I first met him) to porsche (now). I am 'hard graft money' - & made it by buying & selling properties since I was 18. I don't have that sense of entitlement.

OP posts:
skidoodly · 18/04/2010 23:37

yes, I was wondering all right if he thought (and you had started to agree) that he was your social better - all that ridiculous guff about how normal families leave their miscarrying wives to go on holidays with their mum.

see how a conversation about how he abandoned you in the middle of a medical and emotional problem ended up with how you were being inconsiderate of his feelings.

your feelings are lesser, they are not worthy of consideration beside his

thumbwitch · 19/04/2010 00:51

God Silverboots, am to hear the developments.

Your DH doesn't want to be married to you, he wants to be married to his mother. Of COURSE he isn't "abandoning" her (What a nob!) when she has 4 other children who could pitch in - he's not the only bloody child she has! (Note: his behaviour would still not be acceptable even if he was the only child but it might be more understandable).

I would be telling him to ship off and live with his precious ma then if she means so much more to him than you and your DC, really. Perhaps that might wake him up to his pathetically Oedipal attitude.

thumbwitch · 19/04/2010 00:54

OK just had a few more thoughts - he is the middle child, but which son is he? Is there a chance that he felt some kind of obligation to "carry on the family name" and so selected a breeding partner to produce an heir? Now you've done that of course, then you have become the glorified Nanny and he's back to the "important" people.

Wild surmise, based on extremely little, just wondered if it rang any bells?

LoveBeingAMummy · 19/04/2010 07:52

What sort of relationship did he have with his father? Was his father like this with his mother? Did his relationship with his mother cause problems/break ups with gf's before he met you?

Sounds like you have to decide if you can like this or not and decide what you want to do next.

teaandcakeplease · 19/04/2010 08:38

All I can think after reading the latest developments is what a selfish selfish man he is

I'm so sorry OP. Just keep reminding yourself that you're not being unreasonable here in what you said and that I thought you were very dignified when trying to discuss it with him, from what you've said. Far more than I'd have been.

What do you have planned for today? Try and do something nice for yourself at some point if you're working. Treat yourself at lunch or something.

What are you going to do about things?

Bucharest · 19/04/2010 08:48

Good god.

Nothing to add, except my agreement that it's less about his mother, and more (all) about him. He is using the excuse of his mother to justify his treatment of you.

Do some thinking. Hard thinking. And keep talking to us on here.

So sorry you had to deal with your m/c in that way. x

Magaly · 19/04/2010 08:54

Wow. I agree with the others. Send him to his mother's and let her have him!

Swallows post was interesting, but I'll never remember all of that. I realised before I left my x that (amongst his other myriad of flaws) he was totally UNmoved by my deepest distress. That was shocking. A real wake up and smell the coffee moment. I hadn't had a miscarriage, but it was something that really mattered to me, and although I'd been able to rationalise all the smaller things he hadn't cared about before, my brain wouldn't let me ignore the big one.

I hope that you find that kick ass woman you say you once were. I can relate to that too.

Mathanxiety's comment is very important too. "he has silenced you and taken away your voice" not exact quote as it's several pages back now. But even for the every day stuff, he has silenced you. When you speak out, it's an inconvenience.

Besom · 19/04/2010 09:34

Silverboots - I'm so sorry. I've just been through a mmc and I found it very distressing. The way your dh has treated you is truly awful.

I hope you can find the strength to see the wood for the trees here. I know it is hard.

IsItMeOr · 19/04/2010 09:57

Silverboots - I was wondering whether it was his idea or yours to stay elsewhere last night? Just, if it was his, he's running away again...

What a low blow to suggest that you are the one with unhealthy family attachments. I have a slight understanding of attachment in adoption from my previous work, and the research shows that there's no real difference in terms of outcomes for an adopted adult compared to an adult bought up in their birth family. So unless you have some other reason to think you have attachment issues (which tend to stem from our experiences in the first 12 months of life), he's not only being a prat, he's being an uninformed prat.

mathanxiety · 19/04/2010 14:46

Skidoodly's observation about the twisting of that conversation is spot on.

At 59, this man is not an ideal candidate for the kind of long term and very intensive therapeutic work that will be necessary to change him into a normal human being.

Kiwinyc · 19/04/2010 16:13

Silverboots, aside from the thoughtless (some would say abusive) way he treats you it just doesn't sound like you will ever be his number one priority.

Can you be happy being further down the list? You and your sons do deserve better. They are not seeing a good role model and you are not old - you do have an opportunity to meet someone who does put you first, and treats you well. You have been severely let down by this man and he doesn't love you enough to change that and make you his number one priority.

Its horribly disappointing to realise this but it something you should consider and to think about putting yourself and your sons first because he won't.

WhyFrank · 19/04/2010 20:53

Are you there, SilverBoots? How were things today?

SpeedyGonzalez · 19/04/2010 21:27

Silverboots, good to see you're back, and good grief, I really feel your pain. I've had millions of convos like this with men before. He's in hyper-defensive mode (and also aggressive mode - hence the very childish sarcasm), so he's pulling up the drawbridge so as to shield himself from a perceived threat. As a consequence he's reacting against what you say rather than considering and then responding to your thoughts and feelings. This kind of communication is very common between men and women and is so bloody frustrating - all you want is a thoughtful, two-way discussion, but at this stage he feels far too threatened to be able to handle this, and he ends up creating a row or stonewalling (aka buggering off), or both.

From what you've said he does sound rather emotionally immature, what are your thoughts on the future for your relationship? Do you think it's worth trying to pursue meaningful communication with him, in order to attempt a resolution?

If so, one thing that might help is firstly to de-personalise the problem that's causing your communication breakdown. At the moment he is interpreting everything as a criticism of him as an individual. Regardless of whether that's actually what you're doing (and from what you've said I really don't think that's the case) you can see why that interpretation would make him react as he has. To remove the 'personal' element from your communication problems, you need to tell him that you've been looking into things and it seems that the things that are destabilising your convos are very common in male/ female relationships; it's not that either of you is an awful person, but just that you both have chalk/ cheese communication styles and need to find a way to meet each other in the middle. Hopefully, if he is a reasonable man, this should bring some relief to his current emotionally agitated state and make him more open to talking again.

If you want to give your relationship another chance you may find that you have to take things at a much slower pace than you would like - since he struggles to deal with examining his personal issues in a way that you don't, you might have to agree (privately, with yourself) to give him time to catch up with you. Let him lick his wounds for a bit, then suggest you both go out for a walk somewhere pretty to start a discussion - not to sort out EVERYTHING, but just to make a start.

What many people find useful is setting ground rules to structure the convo - each of you absolutely MUST be heard and understood. So far we on this thread only know about your gripes against your DH, but of course he will have issues with your behaviour as well. So you could suggest a few strategies to enable a supportive discussion, such as:

(a) THE HANKY: one person holds a hanky, the other listens. REALLY listens. Without interruption. Then...
(b) REFLECTING BACK: The listener than repeats what they think the speaker has said, giving the speaker a chance to correct any misunderstandings.
Then you swap round. In order to avoid him thinking you're trying to control him, I would suggest that you ask him whether he wants to hold the hanky first.

Another thing is for both of you to avoid at all costs using phrases like 'You always/ never do this' - as they instantly come across as an attack. Instead you should both try 'When you do x, it makes me feel y' - e.g 'when you said you wouldn't stay at home during my miscarriage, it made me feel abandoned and insignificant.' This approach also communicates far more information, and gives the listener insight into the consequences of their actions - or gives them a chance to explain that they've been misunderstood.

This advice comes from experience - when DH and I have used all these strategies, it has transformed our arguments! However, in order to enable your DH to feel that the whole thing is being done on a mutual basis rather than imposed on him, it's important for you to suggest these strategies, ask what he thinks and ask whether he wants to suggest any alternatives/ additional strategies. Then you can both decide on the ground rules together.

If you try any of this, you should both discuss at the end how you think the convo went. If there is a glimmer of hope for both of you, then bravo! and perhaps it's something for you to continue doing on a regular basis. If you come away feeling just as frustrated as you are now, or more so, then it may indicate that, for whatever reasons, things just aren't going to work out. Please DO consult your RL friends about this as well.

swallowedAfly · 19/04/2010 22:41

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warthog · 19/04/2010 23:04

he can't seem to see that when you have your own family, your parents no longer take centre stage.

that this is the smallest of your problems is imo, a huge understatement.

i think it's good that he realizes that things are very very wrong and is not staying at home tonight. if he seriously thinks taking his mum away on hols is more important than his mc'ing wife, then things are indeed in a bad state.

tortoiseonthehalfshell · 20/04/2010 04:18

Speedy, her husband doesn't think they have a communication problem, he just thinks it would be far more convenient if she didn't have needs and desires and a human personality.

Hang in there, Silver. You've gone through a lot of hard things recently, and you're already grieving. It must feel like the universe is raining down on you recently. But you really are doing very well.

Complaining that he was 'expected' to wait around while you miscarried his baby, and then going away anyway, is one of the lowest actions I've read on here, and I've read a lot of bad things.

SilverBoots · 20/04/2010 09:24

Thank you for all the support & advice - I'm processing it very slowly & it's helping me to see things more clearly.

DH was astounded that I wanted him to spend more time with his family. He thinks I should be more supportive of his relationship with his mother (!?)& that I'm setting a bad example with my 'lack of respect for the older generation'. Which is just not true (admittedly, I don't wear a badge saying 'I love old people'). His view is that if I'm not happy with how things are it's my fault.

I do find our conversations very confusing & can't work it out on my own so I'm going to make an appt with relate, hopefully DH will come with me. Only then will I feel that I have tried everything to make it work, or if indeed I want to make it work.

OP posts:
Miggsie · 20/04/2010 09:33

Hi Silverboot, sorry to say this but your DH sounds like he got married because he felt he ought to, and also a son would be nice, but actually he is a total mummy's boy and is not able to have an adult relationship, and he spend's all his time with his mum as she probably loves him unconditionally and tells him he is great OR has such a domoinat personality that his needs were long ago aligned to hers and he cannot see beyond her.

He also sounds very arrogant and unable to feel empathy of any kind. He will always compare you to his mohter and find you lacking.

I hope relate helps you as reading htis I really feel he sees no need to change and won't. He sounds the type who will never be wrong, even when he is...if you get my meaning?

So sorry he offers you no support.

I also think that at some point he will demand devotion and obedience from his son without actually doing anything to help or love him. He just sees relationships as pecking orders and only the top person (his mum) gets consideration.

thumbwitch · 20/04/2010 09:49

OK - he's a prick. There you are. Can't imagine he will go to Relate with you as he doesn't seem to be the sort of person who would consider "talking to strangers about our private life". Hope you get some good advice from Relate but in all honesty I think you have two choices:

  1. put up with being (at best) second best for the rest of his mother's life and probably afterwards too
  2. leave now and try and find someone who understands what a great woman you are and values you properly instead of treating you like a second-rate citizen

best of luck silverboots - your situation is one of the saddest I have read on here for some time, and that's saying something.