Infidelity - how can I/we rebuild our life?

[MrsJellicle]

Hello everyone

The facts:

My dh had an affair about 5 years ago with a colleague. I think I handled it all wrong at the time - just wanted to sew it all up inside and get back to normal as quickly as possible. He is still working with her - she's his assistant and although I do believe it is all over, I do know they still have a feeble-ish flirty relationship.

Then, after a year or so of suspicion and an unspeakable gradual build up of evidence, I finally found the strength to confront him just before Christmas. He confessed almost immediately to having seen escort girls every month or so for a period of about six years. After a weird period of elation (from having eventually found the truth) and then numbness, the true hurt kicked in. Real, physical pain from my heart. I can;t really describe it - it was an unbearable blur.

We have been together for 20 years, since we were teenagers. We have a lovely family and a lovely life we have built together. In spite of everything, I believe him when he says he loves me and that this was all in a 'compartment', completely separate from his wife and family. But equally, I understand that this was an extreme betrayal. It completely bewilders me. I think I am still in a state of shock...

But (and I know that some people will find this incomprehensible) I know that I want to stay and make this work. I am totally decided about that. My whole identity has been built around being a good wife and a good mum and I want to fight to make this work. I know that he is remorseful and he is making great efforts to change.

My question is - how can I/we possibly turn this around and make things right between us again? How can i get myself better? I can feel myself doing the same thing again - binding everything up inside we and just keeping plodding on, not being able to talk about it or get it sorted in my head.

I am in a muddle - no where near following any of the good advice I have read whilst desperately trying to find some comfort in finding people who have gone through something similar. I feel tired and old and cynical. I can't believe that this has happened to me - I almost refuse to believe it.

I would be very grateful indeed for any thoughts from any of you - especially those who have been through something similar.

i think,when you say you have built yourself and your identity around him,is key here!

you need to be you...for you. imo you need to be an individual.

has he stopped seeing escorts now? how do you know?

I do believe he has stopped. He seems horrified and ashamed by his own behaviour and has said that in a strange way he was pleased that i made the discovery so that he could bring an end to it. I made him get all the blood tests and that seemed to bring the reality and riskiness of it home to him too. And he knows now that I will watch the money in the bank account. But this doesn't mean that I trust him. I don't and I don't think I ever will.

I do take your point about being an individual...I think i have lost sight of this.

Did he give a reason for his actions? If he loves you and is happy why did he need to see these escort girls?

Im speechless. they dont change, especially this was more than an affair, prostitutes!! please think about why you still want to be with this guy, what are his good points?

I'm so sorry - what a nightmare for you. If you can get over this you are amazing.

I think you will both need help in the form of counselling. I found counselling a huge help when my husband had an affair (though he wouldn't have any himself).

Can't help with this one I'm afraid, if what you're hoping for is advice on how you can stay with him, because I don't think you should.

What I do think would help you is some really good quality therapy to unravel why your whole identity is tied up with him and the fight to save your marriage at all costs - the greatest being to yourself.

No relationship is more important than the individuals within it. Perhaps when you read what people are likely to say in response to this, it will partly convince you that you are in an abusive relationship. Unfortunately I think you are some distance from recognising that. So sorry .

If you won't leave no matter what he does he will just continue to treat you like someting nasty on his shoe.

Glad you found out so he could stop?

What a crock of shit.

sorry to say but what marriage is it you want to save. The one you have may be able to be but you will be back where you are now.
Is that what you call a marriage?

Just wanted to post something - my dh also saw escort girls secretly for a long period of time. I found out when I became pregnant - he told me it was a relief to no longer have a double life and he wanted to have integrity again.

I had built my life around him too and was devastated, yet couldn't see any future without him - my identity had become so dependant on him and our relationship.

That was over 5 years ago and we are still together and have a better relationship now than during the years where it seemed perfect but was actually an ilusion. What helped was that we both went to counselling (separately) for about 3 years and we have had to face some harsh truths about ourselves. I don't revolve my life around him anymore (which has been a big learning process and was very hard for me) and I don't idealise our relationship or him anymore.

It has been really tough - and there have been many times where I wished I'd had the strength to end the relationship when he first told me. It probably would have made my life easier - by the time I did have the strength, we'd moved on in our relationship and it felt worth continuing.

My dh is what is called a sex addict - he has an unhealthy (and risky) relationship to sex and intimacy and from what you've posted, its possible that your dh is too. If so, don't gloss over this and think it will go away - you need professional help as its just as serious as alcohol or gambling addictions.

So my advice would be: if you want to stay together, get yourselves to separate counsellers asap. Don't let it all be about him and what he's done - you need a good counseller as much as him.
Don't think it will be easy or will go away quickly - it will take time and both of you have to want to change. If he doesn't take this seriously and treat you and your relationship with respect, then it's time to walk away.

Thank you for your responses. I had thought that they might be along these lines.

In lots of ways, my h is a wonderful man - he is a truly fantastic dad; he is fun to be with - intelligent; funny; generous. And we have such a long and good shared history. We know eachother and care for eachother. We have a good sex life.

I don;t know why he has done this. I think it is just because he could - and had this sense of entitlement - busy, high octane job - lots of people thinking he is wonderful etc etc.

Can I not see this as a tragic 'fatal flaw' in an othewise good man? Like an illness or addiction that I can help him to recover from? Can I not see his willingness to confess (even though I didn't have incontrovertible evidence) as an indication that he wants to put all this aside and make a fresh start? Can people never change without being 'punished'?

I am not a Christian, but are there not possibilities for meeting bad things with love, out of strength, not weakness?

My identity is bound up with him and my family because I thought this was a good thing to do and I never resented it or wanted more 'me-time'.

We are going to see Relate in a couple of weeks together

I think Mointhhood may have put her finger on it. I have a friend who is certainly like Mo's dh, and possibly like your dh.

He has a relaitonship with a long-term partner, but has a v. intense relationship with sex as a limit experience (if that makes sense). So he seeks out risky sex (and he is slef-conscious, and self-knowing about this - he once sat me down and explained it to me) outside the relationship.

My guess is that you two work well together (to a point). He takes risks/seeks intense/disruptive sexual experience outside the relationship - you are committed to the "ideal" of perfect wife/mother inside the relationship. Thing is, it's a kind of fantasy you're in, because you're not self-consciusly accepting the reality. though, in another way, you are aware.

I think if it's reached the point where it may be going a bit peaar-shaped, you do, both of you, need to look at therapy.

If you're not happy, and realise it was a self-esteem issue that kept you here, then you must deal with that.

Fwiw, my friends partner is happy with the situation, so ... I don't judge. It works for them.

But it sounds as though that might not be the case with you.

Firstly, I admire you for wanting to get through this, because for me, the affair alone would end my marriage. However, I don't understand how yo9u can want to stay with someone who is using prostitutes. At all. Let alone on a regular basis. As for him being a good dad, how can that be so when he is regularly putting you, the mother of his children, at risk of STDs? To me, being a good dad, ( at least whilst in a relationship with the mother) includes showing respect to the children's mother. he has not done that. You may have got him to have the blood tests etc, what about you? have you had tests done? because if you were still having sex with him throughout this, you are also at risk. I would make him accompany you while you have the tests and while you explain the reason for needing them!
Despite what you say, you do not have a lovely life. You may have a lovely lifestyle, but all the material trappings in the world cannot do more than put a very thin veneer over what sounds like a living hell for you.
And why is it down to you to sort this out and make it better? He is the one who has been shagging around. Not you. He is the one who should be moving heaven and earth to make things right. Not you.

I am and for yo.

I agree you should get some counselling OP, you sounds like a lovely, intelligent woman, but it sounds like your true, authentic self has been submerged in the relationship. Your H is probably a very charismatic and charming man with a big personality you can get swallowed up in, and that feels sort of "safe", am I right?
Only its not safe, because without the bedrock of your own strong sense of self you are completely vulnerable to whatever he does to threaten your nice cosy world (not being sarcastic BTW, just acknowledging how much you have invested in your life with him)

Please please be kind to yourself, and don't be scared of stepping beyond the familiar and getting to know yourself better, its scary yes but its also exhilarating, and it belongs to you!

I was going to post something along similar lines as sayit - but I don't think he can ever put things "right", what he has done (repeatedly) is just so unbelievably cruel and vile , why would you want to be with a man who could do this to you? But then again there are women who can live with and love rapists and paedophiles so anything is possible I suppose.

Hi Mrs J, sounds good that you're going to Relate but have you thought about counselling for yourself?

I'm sure that your dh is capable of being a wonderful man in time, but he has been emotionally neglecting you for years with the lying and the deceit. Whether you stay together or not, I think it necessary for you to figure out what you want from a relationship and then start making that happen.

Its difficult but please try to accept that he has been denying you the opportunity of an open, honest relationship in which you can be happy and that is just not fair to you. Its important that you focus on YOU and what you need and not just on saving your marriage.

And I don't think its about punishing him - but it is about honesty and respect and not covering up unpleasant truths as it will just be harder later (speaking from experience here). He may not want to change - it may just be too difficult for him. Would you really be happy in your relationship in that case?

Really feel for you - hope you have family and friends around to support you.

Hi Mal, I could not even contemplate 'making things right' with my DH if he did this type of thing, so I am with you there, ( agree with you about a lot if stuff actually), but MrsJ has said she wants to try so there we are!

Please re-read what you are saying.

He had been using escorts for a year and then had an affair with his assistant. You blame you for not getting to the bottom of why he did this, when this was his journey to make. He exposed you to the horror and pain of an adulterous affair, but rather than learn from the experience and doing everything in his power to change himself and make it up to you, he did what?

He failed to mention his prostitute habit when the affair was discovered and continued to have a flirty relationship with the OW for a further five years.

Meanwhile, he spent thousands and thousands of pounds paying for sex with women, some of whom will have been humanly trafficked against their will.

You say he is a good Dad, yet he has denied his family that money, has exposed you to a raft of sexual diseases (condoms do not protect against all STIs even if he claims he always used them).

This man feels guilt only when he is found out. Men who use prostitutes have deeply flawed attitudes to women. You say he felt "entitled" - well on that I agree with you.

This is an abusive man, make no mistake.

What would you say to your daughter if she was involved with a man like that? What would you say to your son if he was married to a woman who had done what your H has done?

It is not your role to rescue this man from himself. That is his job.

If Relate have got any sense, they will refuse to counsel you because you are in an abusive relationship.

tbh I don't know how you can say he is 'wonderful' and 'good' when he has not only had an affair but used escort girls as well considering the money and risks involved. I'm sorry but I don't see there is any way that you can make your marriage work now or somehow cure him of his 'fatal flaw' because how will you ever know that he won't do something like this again? I am sympathetic but just saying how I feel about the situation

Thank you for all your perceptive thoughts - and I need more time than I have just now (children still on Easter hols - playing outside now, but not for long i suspect) to digest them properly.

What I would say as an immediate reaction is that MadameO is exactly right when she says that I have become submerged in his bigger personality. I thought this was fine because I truly believed my wedding vows and thought we were becoming 'one'. As i have thought to myself, i think I have been living life according to the Brownie Guide handbook 1978 and all those stories you read as a little girl, where the quiet, good and kind get rewarded in the end.

I do have a job (part-time, but a good, professional job) and I am throwing myself into it at the moment, which I have never really done before. I think he is finding it quite irritating (ha ha).

I have always done far far more (almost everything really) of the household/childcare type jobs in the family, but I thought this was fine because his 'job' was to do the lion's share of the (stressful/long hours) 'providing' and I liked my 'job' as home-maker and general loving facilitator. But we are changing this and he is making great efforts to be more kind and helpful.

As for the health risks - I think that he genuinely thought because he was at the 'high class' end and used protection, with them and (thank God) with me that the risks weren't high. I think this is probably true(ish).

I'll respond to the other points as soon as i can. I do appreciate everyone's thoughts even if they are different from my own. I have only spoken to one other person about all this (who is at a distance from my real life) and I often feel as though I am going mad with things going round and round in my head so it is incredibly refreshing to get other perspectives.

Two further quick thoughts from me based on your post - and honestly, I am not unsympathetic to you, this must be bloody horrendous.

Did he use a dam for oral sex? Did they?

Do you think when he makes dinner, puts the washing on, empties the dishwasher and the myriad of tasks that have to be done, that he is now being "kind and helpful"?

Do you think yout are being "kind and helpful" when you make the bed in the morning?

I know of someone exactly like this, an ex male friend. Perfect wife and two beautiful children at home in their great big mansion. Him, in a job were people will do anything for him, especially women. They hang around waiting for him. Just because sex addiction is the new "in" addiction (Im thinking Tiger Woods, Mark Owen et al) it doesnt make it ok to want to help them over come it. Maybe its me but I dont see someone addicted to shagging the same as someone who wants a drink in the morning. I just think that sex addiction is an excuse to fuck around and why do they fuck around? because they get away with it time and time again. The man I knew had no boundaries. Its no coincidence that his wife had to have treatment for a std as did three of his women. Believe me men like this DO NOT use condoms and you are putting your very life on the line. Just because he picks up the kiddies and takes them to the park, it does not make him a good husband!!! You need to step away, for your own pride.

Hello again

Just to answer a few points as I have a reasonably quiet moment.

Despite how it must sound, my h is not a monster. If you met him, you would think (as everyone does)- what a lovely, decent family man. I think I have been abused and I have told him so, but I don;t think it is a relationship based on abuse.

I have put it to him that he must have a dysfunctional relationship with women. I asked him to consider whether he would want his own daughter to be in the shoes of any of the women he has been involved with - the lonely 35-something asssitant he had no intention of leaving his family for; all the desperate women he has paid to sleep with; or me. And of course he wouldn't.

And WWIFN, I would be appalled if my son or daughter were to have to go through what i have been through. (Although for their sake, I will have to rein in my cynicism and suspicion when it comes to them finding a partner or i will be the MIL from hell).

I do feel resentful about the money. And I can't believe i didn't have any suspicions for so long. Of course, I trusted him and this kind of thing just wasn't on my radar. I saw the bank accounts, but I just thought he got out a wodge of cash from time to time which would last him a while. I onyl very gradually pieced things together.

It was my grave mistake not to insist that he stopped working with the OW (she doesn't even know that I know). He maintains that if she knew, he would have to leave his job; we would have to move house/schools etc and i just couldn't face all that upheaval at the time. I don;t know if it is true or not that he would have to leave. I was just focused on getting back to normal as quickly as possible. In retrospect, this was not the best thing to do and I wish I had had WWIFN's advice (on other threads) at the time (and had been strong enough to follow it). I am of no doubt that the proactive, positive, collaborative, honest approach advocated by her is the best thing to do.

I have challenged him on the flirting etc and have tried to make it clear that it is not acceptable or fair to either of us (the OW or me). I think he does accept this. i do my fair share of snooping as you can imagine and i think he has taken this on board recently.

On the health thing. It simply did not occur to my h that there was any risk from oral sex (I know, i asked him) and I think he thought he was protected by wearing a condom. So although ignorance is no proper excuse, I don't think he was knowingly and deliberately subjecting me to serious risk. i think he had a shock when he went to the std clinic and found himself face to face with the unpleasant facts.

I do comfort myself with the thought that his behaviour wasn't actually aimed at hurting me (although it feels like it sometimes). In other words, the primary aim wasn't to hurt me - it was to get some sort of fleeting gratification. He really believed that I would never and could never find out and that if I didn't know, it couldn't hurt me.

On the point about staying because of the lifestyle etc as in material things - I don't think it is quite that. We have a nice life, and we can afford for me to work part-time and to have had a career break, but we don't have a big house or anything particularly flash. i think it is the 'life', as in the fairy tale happy, loving ideal family that I crave and woudl do anything to keep not the 'lifestyle' as in material bits and bobs. I just feel as though I have backed the wrong horse.

Sure I have missed a few things - will return later.

No point in telling the OP to leave him, she is still reeling from the shock of finding out about his infidelities.

Advising someone to leave in a situation like this is like asking a dizzy person to walk in a straight line - not possible.

OP is not just dealing with a blow to her marriage but to her whole belief system regarding what makes a marriage.

MrsJ..if indeed your husband has a problem with sex addiction, the one thing you must understand is that you cannot 'help him to get through it'.

Addicts of any sort have to 'get through it' alone, on their own. It is NOT your job to do this for him. You can stand by him and try to understand, but this is about him. Maybe that's why he insists visiting prostitutes had nothing to do with you. I'm sure it didn't. But it has everything to do with him and his own demons.