Infidelity - how can I/we rebuild our life?

[MrsJellicle]

Hello everyone

The facts:

My dh had an affair about 5 years ago with a colleague. I think I handled it all wrong at the time - just wanted to sew it all up inside and get back to normal as quickly as possible. He is still working with her - she's his assistant and although I do believe it is all over, I do know they still have a feeble-ish flirty relationship.

Then, after a year or so of suspicion and an unspeakable gradual build up of evidence, I finally found the strength to confront him just before Christmas. He confessed almost immediately to having seen escort girls every month or so for a period of about six years. After a weird period of elation (from having eventually found the truth) and then numbness, the true hurt kicked in. Real, physical pain from my heart. I can;t really describe it - it was an unbearable blur.

We have been together for 20 years, since we were teenagers. We have a lovely family and a lovely life we have built together. In spite of everything, I believe him when he says he loves me and that this was all in a 'compartment', completely separate from his wife and family. But equally, I understand that this was an extreme betrayal. It completely bewilders me. I think I am still in a state of shock...

But (and I know that some people will find this incomprehensible) I know that I want to stay and make this work. I am totally decided about that. My whole identity has been built around being a good wife and a good mum and I want to fight to make this work. I know that he is remorseful and he is making great efforts to change.

My question is - how can I/we possibly turn this around and make things right between us again? How can i get myself better? I can feel myself doing the same thing again - binding everything up inside we and just keeping plodding on, not being able to talk about it or get it sorted in my head.

I am in a muddle - no where near following any of the good advice I have read whilst desperately trying to find some comfort in finding people who have gone through something similar. I feel tired and old and cynical. I can't believe that this has happened to me - I almost refuse to believe it.

I would be very grateful indeed for any thoughts from any of you - especially those who have been through something similar.

MJ - Sorry if this feels like I'm picking on you, but when you say you are relieved his primary aim wasn't to hurt you, that really doesn't mean anything good. It just means he was not thinking of you at all and was being completely selfish.

Just to highlight the fact that you have needs too, and he wasn't considering this when he was being unfaithful and breaking your wedding vows.

Sensible MadameOvary.

Good luck MrsJellicle.

Another friend discovered a different sort of infidelity (financial, on a grand scale), and went through a great deal of questioning. It made her doubt her whole sense of reality. And she, too, felt that "did I back the wrong horse", thing. She said it felt as though she'd discovered that she'd been pouring all her love in the wrong place, like watering a dead plant, or concrete, or something.

Hope you get clarity, and I hope you can pull something really positive, for yourself, for your life, from this. I'm sure you are a life-builder, and have brought joy, love, and security to those around you. They are real things, and they have sprung from you, and the way you make love out of life. You will take that with you whichever direction you go in now. Just remember that, however shaky you may feel over the coming months.

MrsJ, I would like to echo the previous posters

Another thought for you...are you sure you have the full story even now ?

Does he have some sort of fetish or "out-there" sexual prediliction he doesn't want to ask you to indulge in ? I am thinking Madonna/whore thing going on here, although I could be completely wrong.

I am not going to type more, as I suspect you won't want to hear it and will discard my advice immediately.

Would just like to add that I think animula's last paragraph is completely lovely.

Sorry - missed your latest post WWIFN. I do understand that you are sympathetic and I appreciate you telling me straight what you think.

To answer your question, yes, i do think he is being kind and helpful when he does those sort of jobs. And rightly or wrongly, it is a novelty in our house! Since Christmas, it really has been lovely to have someone going out of their way to do things to be kind (cups of tea etc). I know it is only a little thing, but it does help and makes me think that he is committed to changing things.

As I think I said, we had what some people would regard as an old fashioned sort of arrangement - me focused on the home and him focused on the outside world. I had no problem with that at all and i think that if I had had a different sort of man who appreciated the efforts I made to make a nice, safe, loving home then things would have been OK. I liked looking after him and cooking for him etc!

I think that maybe things have been too easy and safe for him, which is why he has felt the need to take risks. i am not a risky sort of person, and I think maybe he didn't find me and our life exciting enough. I know everyone will round on me for blaming myself for all this. I know I am not to blame, but I am still looking for reasons why it happened. I did take my eye off the game when we had little children. Frankly, i was exhausted because they were terrible sleepers. And my confidence in my body got ruined by some terrible stretch marks/flabby skin around my tummy.

Oh dear, this feels terribly self-indulgent and self-pitying - I know I must sound like some kind of dreadful martyr/doormat, which I'm not really. Thanks for sticking with it. I'm OK - amazingly not depressed or mad (yet). Thanks for listening to me. It is nice to get all this out of my system.

OP - I really feel for you. If it was me, I wouldn't be able to live with my husband anymore, because I wouldn't be able to live with myself, if I did. Does that make sense? I think you are still reeling from unfinished business in his affair 5 years ago. On top of all this, buried, deep down hurt, you now have to deal with the fact that your husband was paying for sex, when you were at home, tending to his home, his kids. You say you had a good sex life - but he still sought sex elsewhere. He paid for this! What he has done, is inexcusable. I think deep down you know this. Please, don't compromise yourself by trying to get him "fixed". Think about yourself. You're still in shock, it's early days to consider leaving. But take time out for yourself - you. Your ideal fairy-tale marriage didn't exist - only in your head. Fairy tale marriages rarely exist outside of fairy stories. You're a bright, wonderful woman. You are a person in your own right. He should be down on his knees, begging forgiveness. Please, take time to work through this for you. Not for him, not for the marriage. For you. Have counselling on your own. Develop your role at work, see friends more, find a hobby - whatever, become your own person. That, and the counselling, will make you see that you are a worthy individual in your own right. Tell him that you are hurt, confused, and angry. Tell him that he may have to wait for you to decide what you want. Then put yourself first. When you feel stronger, and more individual, you will appreciate yourself more. Then, and only then, will you know what you want. Put yourself first. Take back control. Good luck.

I couldn't live with a man who justified his use of prostitutes by saying "well, at least they were high end..."

animula

what a truly lovely thing to say to me [tears running down face] thank you so much

We're not all posting to try and make you feel bad MrsJ, just trying to make you understand that this is so far beyond the realms of him being a little flawed but still a good husband and father - I can imagine the amount of shock you are in, it must be akin to finding out your husband is a serial killer or something.

You say he had his seedy little life "compartmentalised" away from you and his family, well that's convenient, isn't it?
What does that say about him as a person though?

AF - I'm fairly confident that I do have the full story now. There couldn't be much more/worse than what I already know, surely!!!

I have asked him absolutely straight about whether he has any fetish type things going on (so we could maybe accommodate them(within reason!!) but he categorically denies this.

Sadly; appallingly; unbelievably; I am now a real expert in bought sex and from what I can make out, most punters seem to buy pretty much the same old stuff they can get at home.

And I won't be discarding anyone's advice. I want to hear what people think so I do not drive myself mad with my own obsessive and quite possibly skewed analysis.

Malificience - I do understand that you are not trying to make me feel bad - there is no need to worry about upsetting me. I am pretty much unupsettable now!!

And yes, I do feel shocked by the extremity of it all, from someone who I do still maintain, is not essentially monstrous. He is not akin to a murderer. He has just done a very bad thing over a long period of time.

I agree (and he also agrees) that it says very bad things about him as a person.

What I am asking is - is there really no chance of redemption? No chance of him turning a new leaf and being a better person?

Of course, these things are impossible to answer.

MadameOvary - I do see that the thing about not really intending to hurt me isn't that great. He is (has been?) a selfish person and i think I have indulged this.
Can I not take comfort from the compartment thing? If i could believe that his behaviour was completely separate and wasn't a comment on me and the life we have made, then I think it woudl be easier to understand/deal with.

AF On the 'high end' point. I did also have to laugh (albeit in a very desperate, bleak way) when he tried to argue that the percentage of time/money that he spent on his lovely hobby compared with his family life was really very small.

I think he had to accept that there was limited life in that particular justification.

What an awful shock to you. Just one quick thought - before you dismiss the idea of leaving him, perhaps you should spend some time thinking about it and working out how it would all work and what life might be like for you. It may not be such a bad place to be. I went through this process recently - I started out terrified of my marriage breaking up and just very very sad, but over the course of about a week, I found it had some very real positives. I completely turned it round and started fantasizing about life without my DH. The thought that I would maybe find someone to love me in the way I really wanted to be loved was an especially good one.

Although you probably can't imagine it right now as you're in shock, maybe spend some time in your peaceful moments imagining the alternative.

So, the compartment thing

Could you settle for a marriage where he continues to put his use of prostitutes in a "compartment" ? I am suspecting he is one of those men who will never keep it in his pants, tbh

Could you re-negotiate your marriage? Allow him to have his "flings" as long as he never brings any dirty linen to your door (metaphorically-speaking)

It is an idea. It works for some.

RE what AF says, it is certainly true that for some the whole compartmentalising thing works, but I cant imagine that MJ would go with that, because by her own admission her identity is not sufficiently seperate from her husband.

How well would you say you know your husband MJ? And would you say you actually like him, (current situation aside of course)? The reason I ask is to encourage to you take at a look at who he is as a person, his values, his beliefs, and so on.
Do you think he has lied to you about who he is? eg someone who says they believe in monogamy then has an affair is obviously lying about who they are.

I have given this serious thought. It would certainly avoid the pain of discovery and the draining constant suspicion.

But what makes me reject it is that it is not what I want. I want an ordinary marriage.

And it would only be fair and equitable if i did the same thing - had my flings too, but I don't want to. (Well, I suppose if George Clooney were to beg me....)

It's not me - what I really want is a sexual bond within a serious, loving, emotionally intelligent relationship. Not just sex by itself.

God you sound like such a lovely woman....

Ok, what has he done about all this?

Sought help? Gone to a top quality psychiatrist? He's had since Christmas (well, actually he's had the last 6 years, but you know what I mean..)

Does he want to recover or is it just you who wants him to?

we humans are conditioned to feel hurt and disappointment but we all have the power to change the words and change the emotions.

You have the power to say this is what happened and start living each day a fresh.

You will just waste your future on the past and it can't be changed now anyway. You have a blank canvas that you can both paint a beautiful new picture. People do things for many different reasons. If you believe in your heart that your husband loves you then say sod it and move on.

Sit down, talk about what you both want from the relationship that doesnt involve what you want people outside the door to perseve you as..Real, open, honest emotion. You have nothing else to lose.

We all go through shit times in our lives but its how long you want to drag yourself through it is up to you.

today is a new day...make it count

sorry if that sounded heartless...I am not dissing your emotions at all and what you have both been through but if you want it to last then find the common ground again...start having a date night where you both get dressed up and rediscover what you both fell in love with in the first place..

It can work...

M-J, FWIW -
Last year my DP ran off with another woman, leaving me with 8 month old DD, arguing that we had grown apart and I didn't want him anyway, which was partly true, as he had been such a pig that I was pretty much indifferent to him by that point.
During the time we were apart, I had loads of help and support and time by myself for the first time ever. Incredibly I still loved him, which I rebelled against so much I purposefully didn't see him for four months after he "married" his GF in a handfasting ceremony. I spent a good amount of time on here slagging him off and being considerably less dignified about it than you have been.

When it all fell to bits between them, I agreed to see him and was staggered that I still felt the same and was prepared to give it another go.

He did and said all the right things but I knew only time would tell. I was perhaps more willing than many to give it another go as I don't have a family to speak of.

I wont go into detail (unless you ask) but it has been six months and things are good, better than ever. I am still not satisfied though,and wont hesitate to speak up if I feel I need to. I know I can survive on my own now and have told him that.

Just so you know where I am coming from

sparkles...your post sounded far from heartless, love

it sounded completely mad, tbh

I haven't been in this situation but my Mum has with my Dad, it was with one person for many years, she even found out when I was little and he still carried on (after a break), she found out again when I was an adult. It was shit, really shit for all of us. Make sure he will NEVER put you and your family through this again. I am sorry that you are having to deal with this.
My parents are still together, baby steps. Odd as it sounds they seem to be acting as a unit far better than they had for years, my father makes an effort to do things with my mum where before he would refuse and be grumpy. Mum has also put things in place that if she chose to she could leave him financially, and if she was to die before him her money comes to us kids so no way of OW getting it.
But I know my mum finds it hard every so often when she remembers it as she feels she has lived a lie for so long. Plus she gave up everything for him - she always told me not to do the same and I would urge you to do something so that you are not just wonderful wife and mother.
Good luck.

Thank god for that AF, I thought I was the only one. She sounds deranged.

I do think that he is committed to change. He has spoken about things to the Relate lady I spoke to over the phone a few times at the time I made the discovery.

He says he is willing to do anything to put things back together, but I feel that he is looking to me to say what that should be. And i feel a bit paralysed and can't think clearly what to suggest.

My intitial feeling was that Relate would be too 'tame' for our peculiar circumstances, and found a reference somewhere to the Tavistock clinic in London. But then I lost focus and started wondering whether it would all be a bit too weird and wonderful - Jungian, that sort of thing, to be truly, practically helpful.

So we are currently waiting to talk to the Relate lady on the phone together after the Easter holidays.

nope, not just you, Mal

I expect we will get jumped on for dissing the cod psychology and flowery language though