Infidelity - how can I/we rebuild our life?

[MrsJellicle]

Hello everyone

The facts:

My dh had an affair about 5 years ago with a colleague. I think I handled it all wrong at the time - just wanted to sew it all up inside and get back to normal as quickly as possible. He is still working with her - she's his assistant and although I do believe it is all over, I do know they still have a feeble-ish flirty relationship.

Then, after a year or so of suspicion and an unspeakable gradual build up of evidence, I finally found the strength to confront him just before Christmas. He confessed almost immediately to having seen escort girls every month or so for a period of about six years. After a weird period of elation (from having eventually found the truth) and then numbness, the true hurt kicked in. Real, physical pain from my heart. I can;t really describe it - it was an unbearable blur.

We have been together for 20 years, since we were teenagers. We have a lovely family and a lovely life we have built together. In spite of everything, I believe him when he says he loves me and that this was all in a 'compartment', completely separate from his wife and family. But equally, I understand that this was an extreme betrayal. It completely bewilders me. I think I am still in a state of shock...

But (and I know that some people will find this incomprehensible) I know that I want to stay and make this work. I am totally decided about that. My whole identity has been built around being a good wife and a good mum and I want to fight to make this work. I know that he is remorseful and he is making great efforts to change.

My question is - how can I/we possibly turn this around and make things right between us again? How can i get myself better? I can feel myself doing the same thing again - binding everything up inside we and just keeping plodding on, not being able to talk about it or get it sorted in my head.

I am in a muddle - no where near following any of the good advice I have read whilst desperately trying to find some comfort in finding people who have gone through something similar. I feel tired and old and cynical. I can't believe that this has happened to me - I almost refuse to believe it.

I would be very grateful indeed for any thoughts from any of you - especially those who have been through something similar.

Mrs.Jellicle. I ask again - what has he done to get help for his problem? Beyond speaking to Relate after you had called them?

Please answer this - it is crucial. This is his problem that you seem to think is your responsibility to fix.

Any you CANT fix it, you just accept that. What does he do ffs that would damage his reputation? is he the prime minister or something? It doesnt make sense. You're right the OW is the least of your problems, its all the other women he has been doing despicable things with and what he could be bringing home to you. He's no role model. Do your family know?

marriage vows say...for better or worse.

I think Mrs Jellicle that what you are doing by staying is very noble..

I hope that what ever decision you both make has a happier outcome..

Forgiveness is a true quality.

Follow your heart and instincts and just be true to yourself..

vom

Well, he did ring the Tavistock place but they were booked up and then I didn't push it - i sort of lost heart and direction and began to think that Relate would be 'safer' and OK - less of an unknown.

I think he would do whatever I suggested, but wouldn't really have a clue what to do himself. I think he is looking for direction from me probably because he just wants to do what i want (and of course it is convenient to him to let things just plod along). But I am all over the place and cannot identify a way forward that is the same from one day to the next. I feel fragile and unreliable.

There is a time lag on all this for various reasons - mainly lack of time due to out of the blue childcare difficulties and me not wanting to/being physically able to talk about it with him becasue i cannot bear to keep opening pandora's box more often than I have to. I won't be able to post tomorrow durign the day as I will be at work but will post again in the evening.

Although it sounds all crazy and f*ed up, and pretty black and white, we are real people just struggling along and trying to make the best of things.

I just get the feeling all the responsibility is being put on you and he is plodding along to keep the peace. Good luck!!

I think you've been incredibly brave posting on here. Real life isn't black and white.

Incidentally, do you think you were really property happy and contented before you knew of all this? Or were there signs that something was wrong?

Because if there were always underlying signs, then maybe you can repair your relationship and make it even better than before. I don't know. It just seems that you talk about your 'perfect existence' being shattered, and I wonder whether in hindsight it wasn't as perfect as it seemed?

Its easy for people to throw words around...to hear other people say what a bastard and awful person in the hope it will make you feel better...but I am not hearing from your heart Mrs J that you are really that type of person to think that way.

I am not dismissing your hurt in anyway but you come across stronger than I think you are giving yourself credit for. He has hurt you and its only natural that he will tip toe around you for fear of doing it again. This maybe comes across as a lack of decision making.

Mrs.Jellicle, okay, so that confirms that beyond a phone call a few months ago, he hasn't actually done anything about getting help and is looking to you for answers and suggestions.

What I'm trying to point out is that people who have affairs have a few traits in common. They are selfish and avoid taking personal responsibility for anything. What I'm trying to encourage you to do is to look at your mindset and see a pattern. You've mothered him it seems and even now, when he completes a normal household task, you describe him as being "kind and helpful", rather than sharing the workload.

He's probably always looked to you to clear up after him and this is no different is it? He's an intelligent man whose behaviour is crying out for psychiatric therapy, but that idea seems to have evaded him and he wants you to tell him what to do.

So, will you insist he goes to a psychiatrist?

Finally, I noticed you first posted in June of last year about your suspicions about the escort agencies, so you've been pretty sure of what's been going on for ages now. You've been living with an admission since Christmas.

I wondered, what made you post about this last night?

or doing anything for a quiet life. For now because you have found out. Im keeping my fingers crossed that you will get the result you want. You are a better person then me as I wouldve brought him right down by now.

I would like to take issue with the no condoms bit by Kitty - I'm pretty sure that wouldn't be the case (vey few working girls would want torisk their health I'm sure), and a simple test would detect any STI's if MrsJellicle wants to be on the safe side.

And as awful as this may sound, using prostitutes is just sex - no emotional attachment there, so I'm sure for him, it wasn't a big a crime as an affair - men are differently wired to women when it comes to sex. Different attitudes doesn't make it right, but he will have his reasons and they need to be understood too (I know this is pobably contraversial but I make no apologies and any counsellor will say the same).

It'll take masses of working through and I doubt there will ever be the same level of trust, but if, once you've both worked this through alone and together, you can move on with your relationship, then I'd just bite the bullet with individual and couples counselling.
Good luck

Did I say he wouldnt have used condoms? I cant remember but, the prostitutes mignt only be the tip of the iceberg, who knows when someone is that sex addicted. I imagine having one night stands is just as easy and cheaper. Its not just a blood test, what would worry me more is cervical changes. And with a smear they can check for other things.

To reiterate what I said a few pages back, OP - forget about him and what he wants please. For the first time, put yourself and what you want first! Get counselling for yourself, you are not only his wife, mother to his kids, you are an individual, a woman in your own right. You are worth so much more - I really think that if you can see yourself as a seperate entity to him, and see that you deserve counselling and get it, it will help you re-evaluate yourself, and then you can get to work on the marriage. No more papering over the cracks - but in order to do all this - please put yourself first. He's put himself first in all of this - it's your time now. Wishing you all the luck in the world.

MrsJ: These are the terms on which you would be able to make this marriage work:
You accept that this man is always going to want sexual encounters (that don't mean much to him in themselves) with other women and decide that his other qualities make this something you can live with.
You decide what rules you won't compromise on (ie that he always uses a condom/never sees the same woman more than once/never has them in the family home when you are away/tells you about it/doesn't tel you about each incident\has regular STI tests).
FWIW as others have said, if he is using 'high end' sex workers then the chances are pretty good that they will be insisting on the use of a condom, and will be taking good care of their own sexual health, so the risks of infection are much less than if he was kerb-crawling for sex.

Do you feel you can separate your own identity and sense of self-worth from what this man does with his dick? For many women, this would be an unbearable way to live, but for some women it is actually OK - usually they have little or no interest in sex themselves but feel that the rest of the marriage suits them and it's fine by them if someone else is catering to the man's sexual needs - and if he is paying for sex it reduces the chances that he will 'fall in love' and walk out of the marriage.
Alternatively, depending on how you yourself feel about sex, how about agreeing to try swinging with your H as a safe way to get sexual variety (and some for yourself too)?

I am not saying that either of these things what you should do, but it;s a better option than 'forgiving' him and just crossing your fingers that he won't do it again. Because this man is fundamentally not monogamous.

this is just bloody awful. i say bugger forgiveness-certainly for now. you do indeed sound like a lovely woman, but you need to gather your strength atm. you may want to give him a chance after all you have been through together over the years(cynical note-at least all you have been through that you know about), but you can't do that now imo. you may think you have a lot to lose, but hell, so does he. he sounds like he's not even come to any kind of realisation of what he's done/is doing. can you concentrate on yourself by getting some help for you, so you can come to realise that you hold powerful cards? i don't think you get how strong you could be over this. knowledge is power and you need to take control of him and the situation-particularly if in your heart you want to keep him(tho i would prefer you to boil his balls in a bucket of broken glass).

what i'm saying very clumsily is that you must grab the power and i think you need some help to do that just now. he really has had it all his way for years hasn't he? -at your expense. can you have some time apart? is that practical? ie i'd love you to tell him to f off, but i don't think that will happen? but gather yourself up tall..get ANGRY! sorry for the ramble.

I do think that the bottom line, harsh though it sounds, is that if you have a partner who is repeatedly unfaithful, your options are either to accept that the partner is not monogamous, or end the relationship. Because if someone isn't monogamous, you basically can't change the person, and a life of worrying, snooping, hoping and having your fears come true repeatedly is simply not worth living.

Also, if you can accept this, that your partner will repeatedly have sex with other people (not many people can and it does'nt make you weak or bad if you can't), then it stops hurting so much and the worry goes, because you know the score.

THis is a different situation to a partner who has a single drunken shag or a single full-blown affair when the marriage is going through a tough time.

Agree with SGB's previous post. I do think you need some individual counselling as you seem unable to regard yourself as a person in your own right rather than in the role of wife/mother. Life is surely more than that?

And women do accept these situations. It wouldnt be my cup of tea but for some women their lifestyle cannot be given up.

Hello

Thanks everyone for your further thoughts - I;ve been at work all day so had no chance to post further.

To answer some questions - I haven't told my family - I just couldn't inflict it on them. They are old now and have had their own fair share of troubles and ilness recently. I would like to be able to tell my brother but he lives abroad and I hardly ever see him. Also i suspect it would make him want to exact some sort of revenge on my h which I can't imagine would be helpful in the long run. I haven't told my rl friends either.

WWIFN asked why I had suddenly decided to post after finding out definitely at Christmas. There is no particular reason. It has taken me ages and ages to do anything about this. I feel frozen and frightened about it and paralysed into inaction. Maybe i am just a coward.

I had quite a lot of evidence in June but not the whole picture. It took two phone calls in November with a Relate lady which i actually thought were about something completely different (my fear of having to go to my h's work xmas party in the presence of the OW) and only mentioning the other thing in passing, as a mere unevidenced suspicion, to make me realise that I did in fact know. That was the first time I had spoken to relate. It was my own body that told me - not my mind. My mind was telling me that it wasn't and couldn't possibly be true - but my whole body shook like a leaf for the entire phone call - i couldn't stop it. And then I knew.

And since his confession I have just not been dealing with it at all. It has taken all my energy just to keep the show on the road - work, children etc. And it has just proved so difficult with childcare etc to get to talk to relate together. But of course I have obsessive thoughts all the time. And this big ugly thing I am carrying around makes me feel isolated and lonely and cut off from my rl friends.

And I just can;t seem to talk to my h about it at all. He did try about a week ago - said that he was feelign positive and hadn't felt the urge to 'do' anything. And i reacted badly - I just find it very difficult to truly express myself to him. it's almost as though I don't want to give him the privilege and intimacy of knowing my true feelings anymore. i don;t do any of this consciously - i wanted to have a sensible grown up conversation but it just turned into a crying thing.

So i was hanging around the relationships site to see if i could find any good advice on the other threads to try to make some proper progress instead of this awful stasis. And in the end i thought it wasn't really fair to loiter around other people's issues without being brave enough to post about my own.

i wanted to talk about the idea of a psychiatrist. Why would this be a good thing to do? I think I already know why he did it. He has been spoilt all his life; he is selfish,; he is borderline mysogynistic; he is stressed out and works exceptionally hard; he thinks he deserves to have whatever he wants; he has a massive ego but underlying insecurities. He is manipulative. He is aggressive and confrontational. He is used to winning. He can compartmentalise. He is good at lying. He is unimaginative - he can;t easily put himself in other people's shoes and understand how other people would feel. He did it because it was easy and available and tempting and because he had enough money to buy people. It was thrilling. Erotic, secret and risky. No one could possibly find out so no-one could possibly get hurt. So why not?

Phew. Glad that's off my chest. Do you think a psychiatrist would get under the skin of all that and actually give him some tools and understanding to stop him repeating the pattern of behaviour? i just have no experience of it at all and wouldn't know what to expect.

Apologies for the essay. Off for a long w/e tomorrow. I will return but understand if people are fed up of this one!

If you know and understand all this about him, surely you know he is unlikely to ever change?
Why would he, it doesn't seem like you're going to leave him, or even make life uncomfortable for him.
To be honest, I don't know how you can ever bear to look at him again, let alone carry on a "normal" life with him.

"And I reacted badly - I just find it very difficult to truly express myself to him"

That's it in a nutshell. Of course you can't truly express yourself to him - because you're eaten up with hurt and anger. Don't worry about what would be good for him, think about yourself - PLEASE!! Get some counselling for you, as a person.
I won't bother repeating myself - but you can't fix him - he's the only one who can want to be fixed - and he's the only one who can take responsibility to do so. But you are worth taking care of - so look after yourself. Please! Have a lovely weekend.

Counselling for you, just you, would, I think, be a revelation.

Therapy, without a doubt, would go further, but is more expensive.

But I think the "paralysed" feeling is not a good sign. Counselling might unlock you a bit.

Would a psychiatrist change him? I honestly don't know. Which is an argument for getting in touch with yourself, so you can start thinking about who you are, and what you want.

I had counselling through my college, it was odd. At first it felt like nothing, but afterwards I felt dynamic. Which was a good feeling. And it seemed to return me to myself, after years of sharing myself out in bits and pieces amongst friends, family and (particularly) children.

Still wishing the best for you.

DandyLioness - I was thinking just the same thing about a RL chat!

MrsJellicle - you show a lot of insight. You have a really god understanding of why your DH has behaved in the way he has. I do wonder though whether a lot of this thinking has been at the expense of yourself? Do you give yourself the thought and time that you give your DH?

From what you have posted, I think some sort of therapy could potentially be incredibly helpful to you both. I have no experience, but its so clear that you are receptive to it. You are hurting, but not eaten up with bitterness or wanting to 'pay him back ' - it's more like a recognition of human weakness and a real core of strength in you which is worth a lot. Your DH is very fortunate to have you - but I guess he knows that deep down.