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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Infidelity - how can I/we rebuild our life?

160 replies

MrsJellicle · 13/04/2010 23:14

Hello everyone

The facts:

My dh had an affair about 5 years ago with a colleague. I think I handled it all wrong at the time - just wanted to sew it all up inside and get back to normal as quickly as possible. He is still working with her - she's his assistant and although I do believe it is all over, I do know they still have a feeble-ish flirty relationship.

Then, after a year or so of suspicion and an unspeakable gradual build up of evidence, I finally found the strength to confront him just before Christmas. He confessed almost immediately to having seen escort girls every month or so for a period of about six years. After a weird period of elation (from having eventually found the truth) and then numbness, the true hurt kicked in. Real, physical pain from my heart. I can;t really describe it - it was an unbearable blur.

We have been together for 20 years, since we were teenagers. We have a lovely family and a lovely life we have built together. In spite of everything, I believe him when he says he loves me and that this was all in a 'compartment', completely separate from his wife and family. But equally, I understand that this was an extreme betrayal. It completely bewilders me. I think I am still in a state of shock...

But (and I know that some people will find this incomprehensible) I know that I want to stay and make this work. I am totally decided about that. My whole identity has been built around being a good wife and a good mum and I want to fight to make this work. I know that he is remorseful and he is making great efforts to change.

My question is - how can I/we possibly turn this around and make things right between us again? How can i get myself better? I can feel myself doing the same thing again - binding everything up inside we and just keeping plodding on, not being able to talk about it or get it sorted in my head.

I am in a muddle - no where near following any of the good advice I have read whilst desperately trying to find some comfort in finding people who have gone through something similar. I feel tired and old and cynical. I can't believe that this has happened to me - I almost refuse to believe it.

I would be very grateful indeed for any thoughts from any of you - especially those who have been through something similar.

OP posts:
violethill · 15/04/2010 23:08

good understanding!

choosyfloosy · 15/04/2010 23:23

MrsJ. It sounds as if you feel paralysed because you have nowhere to go with whatever feelings you do have. You can't talk to your husband. You can't talk to your parents. You can't talk to your brother. You don't mention any friends... and he has the brass neck to say that he's feeling positive because he has not had any urges to shag other women. So... what would happen if he had some urges?

I would say that counselling is an urgent necessity for you. sod what he does. Tell him he is now responsible for caring for the children/sorting childcare for you to have some serious therapy because you have reached a point in your life where, despite being a good person, you have found yourself reading his emails without telling him, living with a man you don't trust an inch and without external support of any kind. He should know that you really want to work this out, but that he should be prepared for a fucking tsunami of anger once you stop trying to hold all the pieces together and just feel, for you, for once.

Very best wishes to you.

BaggyAgy · 16/04/2010 01:50

Mrs J I do so feel for you. You are obviously very intelligent, but even very intelligent people need independent help with matters like this. From your description of your husband he sounds as though he has Narcissistic Personality Disorder, especially when you say he has no empathy. Google Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Google Sam Vaknin. Men with NPD are often adulterous, feel entitled, have no empathy, do check it out. You will need a lot of help to deal with this. My H probably has NPD. I faced a lifetime of lies. I thought I was going mad. Telling real life friends helps. It is surprising that all along you will find that they had suspicions that some thing was not right. One of my friends told me that he used to ogle her breasts. She knew there was something ugly about his behaviour. This was news to me. Consider talking to your brother but getting an assurance from him that he will not act on what you tell him. Tell him first that you need that promise before you can tell him your story. You seem so isolated, whereas your Husband has his women to talk to. I telephoned a Relate counsellor, that was so helpful. I was encouraged to see things in a new light. I had so obsessed about matters that I believed I understood, and that there could not possibly be a different view. You need support. I wish I could give you a hug.

WhenwillIfeelnormal · 16/04/2010 02:03

Mrs.Jellicle thank you for explaining something about your journey to this point. You have written so eloquently about how your physiological response signposted your acknowledgement of the truth and I also completely understand your efforts to keep the show on the road since discovery.

You probably know your husband better than he knows himself, but in a way, that is the problem. Until he understands himself - why he does certain things, why he feels (or cannot feel) - he cannot change.

I think his behaviour suggests that he has deep psychological flaws and so I really do think a psychiatrist would be the most appropriate help for him - he needs medically qualified treatment, rather than pyschotherapeutic, non-medical intervention. A psychiatrist is a doctor first and foremost, whereas a counsellor doesn't have to be. His problems are too serious for Relate or counselling services.

He needs to treat this as a work project or a complex brief. He needs to get a referral to a psychiatrist who specialises in sexual addictions. This psychiatrist will decide on the basis of an initial consultation, whether he/she can treat your H. Your H needs treatment, not therapy. As I keep reinforcing, this should be progressed by your H and not you. You might however insist on this as a condition of him staying for now. You might want to see proof of these efforts - appointment cards etc. - and you might insist on being told the prognosis.

You on the other hand would benefit enormously from a safe counselling space, where you can express your feelings, your anger and your grief. It will help you to unpick the choices you face in this next phase of your life. If you do nothing else, do this, but do it alone. I would suspend any notion of couples therapy for now. That might come later, after your solo efforts have yielded fruit, or if you decide to go your separate ways. Going to appointments separately also gets round the child-care problem.

I well understand your reluctance to share this horror with anyone in RL, but you might want to think about choosing one trusted friend, who knows you both well and can therefore bring some history to bear, in whom you can confide. This person should have your best interests at heart and should be unimpeachable with such trusted information.

babbb · 16/04/2010 02:32

Hi MrsJellicle,

I don't usually post but I just had to after your last response when you talked about your husband's character.

Some of the things you listed really reminded me of this:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder

I started a relationship with a guy who had this personality disorder recently - luckily I caught on quick enough and got out before things got too sticky.

I don't know if that's completely off the mark or something, but maybe something to think about.

Saffysmum · 16/04/2010 07:26

What WhenWillIFeelNormal says. Please, OP, listen to her - I've only been reading this forum for a week or two, but she makes so much sense.

violethill · 16/04/2010 09:06

'ou probably know your husband better than he knows himself, but in a way, that is the problem. Until he understands himself - why he does certain things, why he feels (or cannot feel) - he cannot change. '

You have put it brillianty. That's exactly it. It's as though MrsJ has devoted her life to understanding, and reflecting, and analysing - but actually her DH needs to be gaining this understanding of himself too. And I wonder whether in devoting herself like this, she has neglected her own deeper innermost feelings and needs? I do think her DH is very fortunate to have her, but I also wonder whether MrsJ's total understanding and insight is in a way leting him 'off the hook'. She is doing the hard, emotional work. Which means he can listen, and agree with her (and I don't mean that in a disparaging way, because I'm 100% sure he really respects what she says) but in another sense he is disengaged from it.

Some kind of therapy will hopefully address him directly about all this.

kittya · 16/04/2010 09:54

Sometimes the more intelligent you are the more you analyse and basically come up with excuses for the behaviour of the other person. Whereas some people would just think what a B Im out of here, no excuses. Mrs J is clearly very intelligen but needs to start Looking after herself mentally and physically. Please, get some counselling on your own. What about your friends? do they know whats been going on?

SilkyBreeks · 16/04/2010 10:03

MrsJ, this sounds so lonely for you. I'd like to ask your husband why you can't get paid childcare so you can go for some counselling when he has enough disposable income to spend ££££ on prostitutes?
It just doesn't sound like he cares about fixing this, he "knows" you will stay and put up with whatever he does, because that's what you've always done. Please show him he is wrong, and make it clear to him that things MUST change or you will no longer play the perfect wife. You sound lovely and you deserve much better than this.

SolidGoldBrass · 16/04/2010 11:52

MrsJ, the man you have described is not going to change, because he doesn't want to. He thinks you will put up with anything as long as he stays in the family home, though he is aware, by the sound of it, that every now and again he will need to promise to change in order to keep you servicing him domestically. He's also probably of the opinion that if you do walk away, he is good looking and charming enough to be able to find another woman who will 'love' him enough to do the Angel In The HOuse bit while he carries on shagging.
As everyone else has said, it's time to put yourself first. I know I suggested that you might be able to rebuild a relationship by accepting that he isn't monogamous, but he sounds vile as well as monogamy-resistant 'aggressive', 'entitled' - he has no respect or affection for you.

Saffysmum · 16/04/2010 12:25

Iknow this sounds like a cliche MrsJ, but before there is any likelihood of him respecting you - you have to respect yourself.

DandyLioness · 16/04/2010 12:32

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Message withdrawn

AnyFucker · 16/04/2010 14:41

I fucking hate the sound of this man

you are looking at him postively because he hasn't felt the "urge" to "do anything" in the last week...??? by anything he means he hasn't yet shagged another woman

but he will...why the hell wouldn't he ? There are no consequences for him...the risk of hurting you, that would stop a decent bloke doesn't appear to apply to him...

< screams >

it seems like you aren't actually processing what he is saying to you

he is telling you what he is...fgs, listen

you are setting yourself up for a life of misery...I feel very, very sorry for you

now you have to stop feeling sorry for yourself and give this man some consequences

sincitylover · 16/04/2010 14:46

agree kittya

PeppermintPasty · 16/04/2010 17:26

agree with AF. and HE is feeling positive because he hasn't had the urge to do anything???? what a git. please don't let him off the hook any more, concentrate on getting some help for you so you can deal with all this. good luck.

Jamieandhismagictorch · 16/04/2010 17:58

have been lurking. I agree with everything SGB has said

kittya · 16/04/2010 18:33

He hasnt got the urge to do anything because he has been caught so there will be a drama for afew weeks were he will be remorsefull and before you know it he will be shagging everything in a skirt again. Have some respect, for the love of god. Stop over analysing it. It is what it is. Please confide in your friends, you need them. much love.

DandyLioness · 16/04/2010 19:41

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Message withdrawn

livingagain · 17/04/2010 11:09

Mrs Jellicle

I have joined Mumsnet specifically to respond to you.

Two years ago, I discovered that my DP had been bringing prostitutes into our home whenever I was away for work (about once a month) and my children were with their father. He had been doing this for three years. We have been together for 11 years since my children were 3 and 5 and I thought we had a fantastic, loving relationship. I and my children trusted him completely as he is in most ways an interesting, fun, confident, lovely, caring man. He is not perfect and could certainly be selfish, and like your H had insecurities behind the outward confidence.

Like your husband he liked (was addicted to) the risk taking, the buzz and the thrill, he also liked being able to "have what he wanted, when he wanted it" and of course the high of sexual gratification.

He saw nothing of the consequences of his actions and thought literally nothing at all about the women as people. This was at complete odds with his very real sense of social justice in his normal life. He also had completely compartmentalized this part of his life from his 'normal' daily life. This is why it is called 'acting out' and was almost impossible to me to understand. Even when I had found out, it was so shocking that it was like watching it happen to someone else on the television.

When I found out (he had accidently left open an online escort website when he was booking a prostitute), it rocked the foundations of my whole world. I just couldn't reconcile this person with the man that I know, love and live with and I had not even a single suspicion. I could not believe that he had put my family and I at such risk - in our home.

My first reaction was one of absolute confusion, anger, hurt and of course to tell him to leave. He was utterly devastated and appeared horrified about what he had been doing. It was so completely opposite to the values by which he seemed to live day-to-day. He seemed almost relieved that I had found out.

When I first found out, he did try to rationalize his behaviour which is part of the denial and it is easy for us as partners to fall into our own denial and immerse ourselves in keeping everything going. Like you, I could initially keep busy with daily life. There was no way that I would have talked about it to anyone I knew and certainly would not have told my children. I felt somehow that it was my fault and that I should have been 'better' in some way.

There are a couple of things that were of knowledgeable, practical, active help in those early days;

First, a book about understanding sexual addiction called 'Out of the Shadows' by Patrick Carne.

Second the British Association of Sexual and Relationship Therapy. you can find them on www.basrt.org.uk

BASRT have knowledgeable, trained therapists for both you and your husband, they understand exactly the problem, they are not shocked and can help. The only advice I can give you is to book an appointment with one of these for yourself. For you, a BASRT therapist will be able to help you understand and be able to give you personally some support. Later, you may want joint counselling but not yet.

Your husband should also see a BASRT recommended therapist but do so separately. Your husband has a problem, it is his problem and he needs to help himself. If he really means it when he tells you he is genuinely sorry then he must get help for himself, on his own. He no doubt will be feeling scared about what will come out, there may be other lies but he must get help if he is to recover and you both are eventually to have any chance of rebuilding your relationship.

The most important thing for you to understand is that THIS IS NOT YOUR FAULT, you have done nothing wrong. Look after you for a while.

I hope this note is of some practical help.

WhenwillIfeelnormal · 17/04/2010 12:22

What incredibly wise and helpful words, Living again. So pleased you also recommend individual help too. What was your outcome?

kittya · 17/04/2010 13:01

Have you got a good friend you can confide in?

Karmann · 17/04/2010 13:44

So glad you posted that livingagain. It must have been so hard for you to do but hopefully really helpful to MrsJ. We so often feel alone in our experiences when really we're not.

MrsJellicle · 27/04/2010 11:57

I'm not intending to reopen this thread, but i just wanted to say a big thank you to everyone who gave me their thoughts and advice a couple of weeks ago. I am especially grateful to 'livingagain' who joined MN specially to give me the benefit of her experience. (And I know how difficult it is to write about these deeply painful and personal things - I am truly grateful).

I didn't agree with everyone (I didn't really expect to - I do understand why some people might think I am mad!) But it gave me the chance to hear a whole range of reactions and it really allowed me to get a grip on the things that were whirling around in my brain and finally take action.

I found it a really cathartic, emotional experience and I was incredibly touched by the 'kindness of strangers' who were prepared to give me their time, sympathy and straightforward good advice.

As an update, I had my first session with a BASRT therapist yesterday and she has recommended someone else for my h to see. Thanks to advice from MN, I am relieved to have got rid of the idea that we shoudl be doing 'couples counselling' - I do need my own space for this.

To pass on some of my counsellor's wise words - she said that we should focus on getting to a place where I can be strong enough to stay, or alternatively, strong enough to leave if that is what I choose - ie to get strong and get choices.

Thanks again to you all.

OP posts:
WhenwillIfeelnormal · 27/04/2010 12:10

Good luck Mrs.Jellicle and thank you for updating. So pleased you've got a safe space to air your thoughts now and I think the counsellor's view of "getting to a place of strength" is very wise.

AnyFucker · 27/04/2010 16:32

Good luck, Mrs J

< resists urge to ask how he is coping with his "urges" >

< fails miserably >