DH wants me to have a termination. . .

[pollywollywoowah]

. . . but I don't.

Just found out that I'm pg with DC3 after taking morning after pill. (We have DS age3 and DD 18mths and had not planned to have any more). We did discuss the possibility of the pill not working and both said termination wouldn't be an option for us.

However I told him last night that I'd done a pos pregnancy test and to cut a long story short he basically wants me to have an abortion. He says we are not good enough parents to cope with three children, we've just got our lives back on track after DD being born and I had a very hard time bonding with DD which was a horrible time.

I feel totally shocked and let down. I knew he wouldn't be at all pleased but expected him to feel like me - that it wasn't what we planned and far from ideal but we'd get through it and stick together and take responsibility for our actions. He thinks our relationship won't survive.

How can this ever be resolved? I can see his point - we need a bigger house and car, I wouldn't be able to go back to work so money would be very tight BUT I feel in my heart that those problems can be overcome one way or another.

I should mention we had two losses prior to DS being born so how can I possibly now terminate this pregnancy just because it is inconvenient?

You see i think until you back down and do this then this is all you wil get - I think he knows you cannot terminate this pregnancy and i think he is throwing down the gauntlet to you. It is very possible that he does harbour a huge amount of resentment for the problems follwing the birth of your dd.

Times of extreme crisis are when we are tested as people and i think he has resoundlingly failed you.

I too wish i could just take this away from you - and I honestly think that terminating this pregnancy in this atmosphere will probably destroy your relationship anyway. It is very hard to deal with someone acting outside of how you know and love them but people will do a lot to get their own way.

To be honest, do you really feel that there are no underlying problems in your relationship? ust saying you are making me not love you anymore? where the fuck did that come from? It is a threat - he is saying you either do this or you lose me - that is clearly what he is saying. I could respect him more if he could just be honest and say it.

He is trying to frighten you into having an abortion..... if this was me Polly what would you say to me?

I really feel that you do not want to terminate this pregnancy, i think if he showed the slightest hope of accepting this you would have this baby in a heartbeat.

What wannabe said.

Others will come on and make excuses for him, but IMO there is NO excuse for an adult behaving this way towards his/her spouse or partner.

It's manipulative and bullying at the least.

Gees, you know in your shoes, if he pulled that 'You're making me not love you anymore' number, I'd have paused for a second and then thought, 'You're doing a pretty good job of that, too.'

He flew off the handle because you wanted to talk?

Yes, it must be really tense and of course highly charged environment at the moment, but grown ups do not storm off, or have tantrums when another wants to discuss a life changing decision.

Were there problems before this pregnancy? It just doesn't quite make sense that he's a good father, good husband, but seems to have flipped.

You say you discussed what would happen, hypothetically, if you got pregnant despite being on the pill and you agreed that it wouldn't mean an abortion.

So, seems to me that he has changed his mind, but you haven't, however he is trying to make it seem that it's all down to you -- i.e. your PND, your ability to cope/bond with baby.

Or do I have it wrong?

polly, i think if i were in your shoes right now i would remove myself from the tension and bullying in order to think things through for yourself, without threats, without bullying and ultimately that means for the time being without your DH.

is there anywhere you can go and stay for a few days with the kids?

i would NOT be forced into making this decision under these circumstances. please please, take some time out from your DH. if nothing else he will realise your strength of feeling is as important as his. tbh he is starting to sound like a bit of a bastard. yes i know its scary but to simply blackmail and browbeat you into submission is wrong on every level. how can you ever get past this if he forces your hand?

take some time out. he is throwing the most almighty strop - let him do it alone and think about what he is asking you to do and what it means. does he REALLY want to lose you? because i think he will if he carries on like this.

take the kids, and stay with a friend or relative for a few days, it cant be any more painful than living in such a horrible atmosphere at home. let yourself contemplate the options properly without pressure.

i feel strongly that you shouldnt make this decision under these circumstances.

hope your ok, i really feel for you.

Polly - I fear that he is causing you to disrespect him to the extent that if he forces you to go ahead with this, your relationship will crumble anyhow and you will be left with the guilt of a termination.

I'm so sorry Polly. I'm appalled by your dh swearing at you and saying you're making him not love you. I thought you were both being stubborn, but he is being horribly aggressive. I can understand him being cross, frustrated, scared and so on, but you do not say that rubbish to anyone.

You need some space. Anywhere you can go?

Get it all down in a letter for him about how you feel and then go somewhere with the kids.

The way I see it you?ve ended up like two boxers in a ring, he wins and you get an abortion, you win and have a child. The more he pushes what he wants the more you are forced into your corner, but by pushing back you are pushing him back into his corner, and to be fair you have MN and RL friends in your corner and he doesn?t have anyone to talk to. In the process you both get bruised and battered by the fight, the things that are said really hurt. And in the end one of you will lose. Whoever loses will feel bitter, bullied and browbeaten. What does the winner get? The winner gets a partner, husband or wife who is bitter and resentful, a family in which the dynamics are such that one gets their way regardless of the other. Probably not a family that can stick together too long.

This is not a right or wrong, win or lose situation, because when it is you will both lose.

Have a rethink as to what you should do as a family, what is best for all of you, together. After all you said it better yourself ?it's about feeling as though we have come to a decision together and not that I have no choice in the matter, which is how I feel.? It?s how he feels too.

Hope things have calmed down Polly, thinking of you.

Polly, just another voice of support. I think Vicar's post is dead on.

Things calmed down last night and he apologised for his behaviour but he still feels the same.

I don't know what to think now. I can't see how I can think of bringing up three children by myself, which is really what I would be looking at. I don't want to do that to my DCs.

We were so happy, I don't think there are any previous underlying issues. Only possibly his feelings about life after DD was born. But up until now that was in the past and no longer an issue. Obviously now it is very relevant.

He just wants to maintain the status quo really. He said the last 3yrs (ie since DS was born) have been so hard and he has been unhappy for a lot of that time. I didn't know this. Things haven't been easy but we coped. Since Christmas things have really evened out. DD started sleeping through, not waking at 4am, DS at preschool, the baby days behind us really.

Got to post and run as DH just gone for shower and will be back soon. He has mentioned a private abortion so that it's not hanging over us for so long, but I am very dubious.

I can't imagine ever feeling the same about him again TBH. Something special has died.

I don't think he's been continuously unhappy for 3yrs, just lots of difficult situations (but nothing out of the ordinary for young families I don't think) or else I wouldn't have thought everything was ok. He is just laying it on thick. .

"He has mentioned a private abortion so that it's not hanging over us for so long, but I am very dubious."

Hanging over you? What a fabulously disrespectful POV. No mention of that time being useful thinking time for you, to work through all your thoughts and feelings on the subject. He really has no idea.

I would be extraordinarily angry in your shoes. Or maybe I just think that because I'm so angry on your behalf.

He is bullying you, laying on the guilt. If he was that unhappy why didn't he talk to you.

I fear you will have this abortion for him and a quiet life and will regret it and end up hating him anyway.

I wish you everything you need to get through this difficult time.

oh polly I´ve been following this thread and I really feel for you. I have no idea what I would do in your situation and don´t doubt I would feel as lost as you do. I hope you get some space to really think about which decision will be less difficult to live with because I know you are caught between a rock and a hard place, your husband or your children. I am sorry it is coming down to this.

Polly

if you have the abortion- and remember you have plenty of time to get things sorted out so you could cope, and a visit to the CAB before you finalise anything is a sensible suggestion to find out what you would be entitled to- and if you stay with him (calling you fucking anything becuase you want to talk is IMO the emasure of a bully whose cards have been pulled) make it clear that there will be no sex until he has had the snip: if he can insist you have a medical procedure then so can you.

I've been on here years and years and have come across this a few times. I have no strong opinions on termination either way for other people (I do on bullying men though). It seems to me in a lot of cases it seems to come down to whether you see it as a baby or a problem. You my dear seem to see this as a baby (understandable). As such I sincerely doubt you could terminate and get away with psychological equanimity. Indeed I would point out to your H that I have seen women suffere bereavement post termination not unlike PND in severity: what will he do if that happens? He needs to relaise.

Most of all though I would assume that he won't be about in two years (if he its a happy bonus) and work out which you'd regret mroe: a termination or a baby. Finances matter but are solvable- we had our first as low earners in the pre-tax credit days and people coped. babies grow up fast as well- when you're stuck in toddler stage that doesn't seem true, when you have 4 runninga round and you are wonodering where those 10 and 9 year old boys appeared from you relaise just how much of a blip tiny babyhood / toddlerhood are, and how in fact the not working / all day childcare is actually a blip in the entirety of a life.

None of this is guranteed of course- two of mine have SN for example so rather than a blip its forever- but in most cases its a relatively short time until theya re at school and you can work and get back on your feet, you can even do what I did and use the time with a baby to get qualifications etc (lots of nurseries at colleges and universites provide access to low charge services for students_ that's not so much a waste but an investment.

So you see: if you had the baby you would cope and your life could even improve lots but there will be sacrifices at least in the short term. You just need to work out how much cost this baby will be to you, and whether its worth it.

And frankly I don't think H actually gets that the baby is a real entity (albeit an unaware bunch of cells) and not soemthing he can simple wish away, there will be consequences whatever now.

Hope that wsn't too rambly [bush]. I just feelv ery uncomfy that someone whose views were adamant enough to be pro-life is being bullied into something nlike this that will be with them for life when an apprently flaky H seems to think it can just go away.

And you know- you could speak to life for help. Me, I think they're a bit radical for my tastes but if you have noughtc ards anyway give them a ring. Build a network around you desiigned to focus on what your heart wants rather than enforcing a separate life plan.

'The more he pushes what he wants the more you are forced into your corner, but by pushing back you are pushing him back into his corner, and to be fair you have MN and RL friends in your corner and he doesn?t have anyone to talk to. '

He refuses to talk to anyone. She's already suggested even he talk to a counsellor, as impartial as it gets.

And she's scared. He's pushed her already to teh point where she made and went to an appointment for a referral.

Now he suggests a private abortion.

So he can more quickly get what he wants before you have more time to think. Does he really think you are that stupid? Does he honestly have that little respect for you and your decision? Actions speak louder than words.

If he were that unhappy, well, he had 3 years to sort it out, talk to his spouse, get the snip so there'd be no more kids, take responsibility for things.

It's what adults do.

When they don't they're wastes of space, especially when they call their spouse a fucking bitch for not doing what they want and put all the blame on them for something they did, too.

You say you already feel like something had died.

Now take that feeling and imagine how you'll feel if you do something you don't want because he bullied you into it?

As for your children, well, I can't imagine any who are better off with a bullying, manipulative parent and another who is cowed and browbeaten.

'I have no strong opinions on termination either way for other people (I do on bullying men though). '

I agree.

I agree with Clarissimo that if he's so unhappy the chances are he will leave anyway. With this is mind can you cope with knowing this man has pushed you into an abortion you didn't want and then leaves you anyway?

You will be able to cope with 3 children. If he is like this now can you imagine your future with him? What if there is another accident? Does he plan on pushing you into endless abortions?

Polly - huge HUG.

I agree with the others who have said to try to get away for a couple of days & have some space to think about your feelings.

I don't know how your DH has convinced you this is the best for your other children - what does he base this on?? It sounds like a convenient guilt trip to me.

Right now your DH is being a bully, manipulative, insensitive and generally a proper wanker. I know he's calmed down some (Thank God), but it doesn't change the fact he wont talk about it and he wont go to councelling - which is the very least he owes you.

I don't see this as choosing between your husband and your baby (pregnancy?) - I fear he has done the damage already - regardless of what you now choose. Choosing to have a termination is in no way a guarantee you can have a 'happy ever after' after this, after his total lack of support, love & compassion - so please don't allow the thought that this is what you will get in exchange for the termination.

Something special has died - and this is something you really, really need to think about. I fear that no matter what you do, it 'could' spell the end of your relationship. Consider how you would feel if he leaves (or you leave), which could you best live with - a third child or a termination you were 'coerced/conned' into. If you end up on your own with the children - how much difference would it be if you had 2 or 3 children and would it be worth it??

You are not 'doing this' to your children!!! HE is (forcing you to choose). HE has - already (his treatment of you). There is NO guarantee that if you go through this termination for him (and have no doubt, it is what you would be doing, you had already decided if the MAP failed you would keep the baby)he/you will stay and the children will be with both of you.

Do not be talked into a quick private termination to 'get this over with' or 'to keep him happy' or 'to get it sorted' - please give yourself time to be sure you are OK with it, if you are going ahead with the termination.

However, as I said before and many others have said, you need to go and talk to someone who is trained to help you make this decision. Everyone, myself very much included, comes to this board with their own history/desire/beliefs and although it's invaluable to gather information, it's more important to talk to someone impartial in RL.

I am sure this is going to come across as anti-termination, and I'm not. I am anti bullying, forcing, coercing, guilting...

Biggest hugs, my thoughts are with you x

Well he has made his decision.
So you either go along with it or not & take the consequences of either choice.

If you decide to have the baby,would he leave now,or wait & see how it all goes and then leave if it became difficult?

I am so so sorry for you. You poor woman, this is awful.

Suppose you have the termination as he wishes. Do you really think you will be able to put his recent behaviour behind you afterwards - never mind any other considerations such as grieving for the baby.

Believe me, I am pro-choice so no axe to grind on that score. But he is behaving DISGRACEFULLY. You being pregnant is a situation for which you are jointly responsible and him not even discussing it (and worse, browbeating you in this reprehensible manner) is nothing short of shameful.

I know it's a big thing and I am just throwing it out there...but what do you think about asking him to leave for a while, whilst you both do some thinking? I don't see how you can get any clarity of mind in this sort of atmosphere, and he might just realise how unreasonable he is being (I mean about not even talking about stuff properly) and also realise that you aren't someone he can just order to do his bidding. Like I said, it's a big thing to do but I just thought I's suggest it.

Agree entirely with Clarissimo.

If you do go through with it, would he emotionally support you through the grieving period? Or would it be a case of "It's time to get over it and look forwards"? If he can't be there for you emotionally now, then he won't understand what you need if you do go through with this.

Physically and emotionally he is unwilling to share this with you.

I found myself pregnant at a terrible time. I always thought that I would have had a termination in such a position. But I already had a bond with my baby. The same bond as you have described. I couldn't do it.

I have never regretted that decision.

If you wanted a termination I would be supporting your decision completely. But you don't. If he said "go for it" you would keep the baby without a second thought. This is not coming from you at all.

Of course he should have a say and an opportunity to put his side and try to persuade you. But he's just putting his foot down and telling you that this is his decision.

It's not his. It's yours.

Your H is being a complete dick. he sounds like a bratty bully stamping his feet to get his own way.
Part of being an adult is taking responsibility for your own actions and he is refusing to do this. this is a situation you got into together, now he's refusing to deal with it together. yes, he is entitled to an opinion, but ultimately you're the one who is going to bear the emotional results of a termination. Please don't let yourself be forced into doing this.
His 'reasoning' is ridiculous - you may not even get pnd. I think that the emotional strain/turmoil you are in now would almost certainly mean you will struggle emotionally after termination. This decision is one that should be made with a clear head to be sure it's what you want, not one forced on you by a bullying wanker.
and remember, you have NOT done this to him - you got into this together, and what he is doing now is absolutely unacceptable.

Is there any reason to believe that he would suddenly become 'supportive' if you did have the abortion? Personally think that this is the level of support he is going to give and isn't going to get any better.

You need to decide whether this is a deal breaker for you or not.

So sorry for you.

To be clear with you my friends H did the same about a second child - she terminated the pregnancy bearing in mind her other child etc etc. Her dad had died just after the birth of her child and she had got a bit down, not really serious pnd tbh but it mucked up their sex life and she needed a lot of support from him (when she had always been so supprtive of him) and took ad's. He said all the things your H is saying, all the 'oh it's been so difficult to cope, i just want time with you again, I don't know if i can stay if we have another etc etc'. The first child had just started school - it went on and on, he too went from angry and bullying to crying and pleading and eventually the silent treatment because he was 'thinking'. She terminated privately because it was quicker - I supported her because she needed me but she was absolutely beside herself from the pre counselling to waking up in the ward - just devastated. I regret now not just taking over and standing up to him, or taking her into my home just so she could think about how she felt. I felt it was between them and i should not interfere too much but what i didn't realise is that he just had a whole load of ammunition to use on her to talk her round. I remember him saying to me 'i want to stay but if she has this baby it will ruin everything we have worked towards, i work so hard to give us a good life etc etc and why would she have this baby and force me to leave?

He was so sweet to her after, let her talk about her feelings, they went on holiday, he commiserated with her..... he left her about 10 months later. She is alone with her child, he has not exactly made a whole lot of effort to see the his child and she is absolutely guilt ridden about her choice although she is certainly not anti-abortion in anyway. She is overwhelmed with regret and we talk about it all often.

I do feel she would have coped better if she had made the choice. I did try to talk to him at the time but he also convinced himself that making it quick and clean was best for everyone. It was all over in a matter of a couple of weeks from finding out she was pregnant to ending the pregnancy. I can tell you, as her friend i am left with a bad taste in my mouth about this bit I feel now I should have intervened more strongly but she was so scared and telling me she couldn't make a decision so as the father she let him decide....

She is having counselling now and i am sure getting better about it all - she has a lovely mum and sisters around her that help her as we do as friends but she really thought that doing what he wished was a guaranteee of loyalty and she had made such a sacrifice for the sake of her family.

I just wanted to share this with you, not becuase i want to scare you but her heart bleeds about what she is done and she cannot go back and change her mind. She keeps saying to me that is she knew then what she knows now she would have done the opposite - how horribloe for her. I say all the right things to try to help but i cannot take this away from her.