DH wants me to have a termination. . .

[pollywollywoowah]

. . . but I don't.

Just found out that I'm pg with DC3 after taking morning after pill. (We have DS age3 and DD 18mths and had not planned to have any more). We did discuss the possibility of the pill not working and both said termination wouldn't be an option for us.

However I told him last night that I'd done a pos pregnancy test and to cut a long story short he basically wants me to have an abortion. He says we are not good enough parents to cope with three children, we've just got our lives back on track after DD being born and I had a very hard time bonding with DD which was a horrible time.

I feel totally shocked and let down. I knew he wouldn't be at all pleased but expected him to feel like me - that it wasn't what we planned and far from ideal but we'd get through it and stick together and take responsibility for our actions. He thinks our relationship won't survive.

How can this ever be resolved? I can see his point - we need a bigger house and car, I wouldn't be able to go back to work so money would be very tight BUT I feel in my heart that those problems can be overcome one way or another.

I should mention we had two losses prior to DS being born so how can I possibly now terminate this pregnancy just because it is inconvenient?

"Part of me just wants to have a termination asap and forget about it all."

You won't be able to forget about it all.

Give it a few days and hopefully, the shock will die down a little so that you and your H can talk about it sensibly.....

Firstly don't panick. You are both in shock. Wait untill the news sinks in a bit and then sit and talk rationally and calmly about what the next step is.

I'd suggest that without a lot of counselling your relationship is doomed either way (sorry), unless he changes his mind when the shock has sunk in. Which is a possibility.

If you go through with a termination you are not happy about you will resent him. You will regret your descion for the rest of your life. He may or may not (he probably will) feel guilty for pushing you into it.

If you have the baby have the baby against his wishes, there is a chnace he might come to terms with it, once he sees his child. There is also a chnace he will resent you and the baby and spend his life blaming you for anything that goes wrong i.e. lack of funds, sleepless nights etc.

You both need counselling together. You both need a make a descion that you both can live with. If you can't come to this descion together then you need to make the right descion for you.

Like another poster said I have never met a woman who had a termintaion they weren't 100% happy with and not regretted it. My friend still has counselling over hers. She lost her relationship and many of her friends through punishing herself. My mum still has not forgiven her own mother for pressuring her into an abortion. Their relationship is strained because of it. My mum has spent many a night crying for the loss of her child and the relationship with her mother. If a mother/daughter relationship cannot survive such a strain, what chance has a spousal relationship?

Just please try not to forget that you didn't want another baby either until this accident happened. To the extent that you took the MAP.

Shiny, that is so sad for your Mum. As others have said, the news are less than 24h old and I'm sure you are both panicking and he's in shock. Give yourselves the time to let it sink in and steer clear of accusing each other. I'd say speak to your GP and ask for counselling. Do you have a vicar in town who you like and trust? Whatever decision you make is the one you have to live with. Don't be bullied, you'd never forgive him and yourself if a termination is not what you wanted. Practical issues can be solved. Do you have family close by? Don't pile it all on him now, ease off, let him digest it and take it from there. You have about 2 1/2 months to make that decision.

Still, I think aborting a fetus with a beating heart is very different from taking the MAP. I'm not pro-life, I am pro-choice. But I hate bullies!

I would talk to a counselling service that specialise in this kind of thing like BPAS - they don't pressurise you into having a termination at all but do make sure that you have fully thought through everything if you do go ahead and it will give him a chance to have his POV heard which is important - this child is both of theirs remember. Obviously it's the OP's final decision but cutting him out of the process is really not going to help if she decides to continue with the pregnancy.

Also can we stop with talking about the OP's DH leaving if she continues with the pregnancy? He has said he doesn't think their relationship will survive, not that he'll dump her. Demonising him is not helpful.

Agree with ladybiscuit. They need to sort this out together, there's no right or wrong view on having babies, just personal feelings.

OPs DH has every right to not want another baby, and I don't think it is fair to say that he should have had a vasectomy. Who would reasonably expect both a condom and MAP both to fail? Perhaps they're on the waiting list anyway, OP doesn't say.

His feelings are just as valid as hers. Society expects fathers to provide for their kids and so he is under a different pressure as a father. Maybe he doesn't want to 'get by somehow', maybe he wants to plan for his family's financial stability etc and doesn't see how they can afford another child.

I realise I;m being a bit devils advocate here, but my brother became a dad when he hadn't planned or wanted it (different situation, partner lied about taking the pill) and I think it's just a bit unfair that men's views are so often marginalised on this issue.

I also don't think it's fair to say 'he'll like it when it gets here' as you could say that about using contraception in the first place. It's an emotionally loaded argument, and unfair.

morris, if i understood op correctly they didn't use a condom because they were overcome with lust and there was none at hand...

"It was a caught up in the moment lack of condom incident. He accepts it was as much his doing as mine."

'and I don't think it is fair to say that he should have had a vasectomy.'

Why not? If a person is that opposed to having any more kids then show some personal responsibility for it.

And there was no condom.

Apparently, that's what they had chosen to use as birth control.

Well, that means he is the user of it.

But didn't do it.

No sympathy for people who claim they were tricked into becoming parents.

Don't want 'em, don't have 'em. Entirely possible in this day and age.

Get snipped, use condoms, don't have sex! As a dear friend of mine put it, 'Unless it's a case of rape, 'no' is always an option.'

There's at least one poster on here who is sterilised AND uses the implant.

Because she really doesn't want any more children.

I mentioned the vasectomy because I have been in the OP's situation - where my DP hadn't really been clear to me how adamant he was about not having any more children until I got pregnant. I had a termination which I didn't want and I'm totally over it now but it did end our relationship. If you really, really don't want any more children and you're a bloke, then you need to make sure that accidental pregnancy doesn't happen IMO. Because it's not you that ultimately has to deal with the consequences.

Exactly, LB.

DH decided he didn't want to father any more kids. Ever.

So he called the GP and made an appointment.

actually I do think it's that simple. If you (as a man) feel strongly enough that you don't want a child then you either don't have sex or you take additional precautions to ensure that it doesn't happen.

And while I certainly don't condone any woman that lies about being on the pill, the reality is that no contraceptive is 100% accurate, so if you're having sex there is always (albeit small) chance that the contraception will fail and you will end up with an unplanned pregnancy.

No-one would surely suggest that it was ok to force a woman to carry a child she didn't want to because the dh wanted the baby, so why should forcing her to have a termination be any different?

Whether people like it or not it is the woman's choice. Yes the father has a choice to not be involved in this baby's life in terms of emotional responsibility, but given he was there during the act of conception, and knowingly didn't take precautions he has a responsibility to that child regardless of his wishes after the event.

If it were my dh he would have two choices - "I am having this baby, now you can either choose to stay with me, and have a relationship with this baby in the same way as you do with your other children, or you can go and I will raise the children by myself."

x posts with wannabe who obviously thinks the same way as me

dh has since had the snip and taken responsibility for his choice not to have more

Er so does this apply to women too? They should get themselves sterilised if they don't want kids and then if contraception fails then it's 'no sympathy'?

Life happens, shit happens.

My brother's partner said she was on the pill, he had absolutely no reason to think she was lying. But she was.

Should my brother have watched her swallowing her pill each night? And nobody would have thought that was weird, untrusting or controlling? Would you have a relationship with somebody who made you swallow your pill in front of him each day?

My brother did want kids, he just didn't want them then. And yes, he loves his child more then life itself but that does not make it ok. He didn't suggest she had a termination btw, that I know of anyway.

It's a different situation to op so I'm not trying to compare, I just think that men who are expected to support kids should at least be taken seriously and listened to about how many kids they want and when they want to have them. Ultimately op has control of her body and it's her choice what to do, but her DH's views are valid and important.

I agree entirely with Morris, however the thing that annoys me a bit about men is that they do tend to put sole responsibilty for contraception onto women.

If men want to have an equal say in what happens re kids they need to share the responsibility of contraception, ie, vasectomy when it is agreed.

morris but the difference is that the woman can go off and have a termination, whereas the man doesn't have that choice. So if the man really feels that strongly about not wanting children that he thinks he would leave the relationship if pregnancy occurred then yes, he has the responsibility to ensure that pregnancy does not occur, be that to use an additional contraceptive such as a condom or to have a vasectomy.

In a case where a woman lies about the type of contraceptive she's using in order for pregnancy to occur I would say there are far deeper issues within the relationship anyway.

Yes, I agree that the timing of pregnancies is something which should be discussed with both partners, and it is certainly not up to one or the other to take steps for pregnancy to occur when the other is against such an action, but in this case the husband knowingly had sex with the op without using contraception, when you do that you do so in the knowledge that a pregnancy could result from the intercourse. You can't then turn around and say "I know I had unprotected sex with you, but I don't want a baby so I think you should have a termination."

In much the same way I have little sympathy for any woman who doesn't use contraception and is then devastated when she finds out she is pregnant.

There is a big difference between not wanting to get pregnant and so taking the MAP and in being able to stop an established pregnancy.

Good luck op - keep talking and decide together if possible but don't be bullied by him because you have to live with yourself.

'Should have had a vasectomy' is not an answer. There is a waiting list. They like to make you wait a while to see if you are sure, I think with an 18-month-old they would ask you to wait a while to be sure. And maybe he didn't know how definitely he didn't want any more children until it became a reality. The OP didn't want another baby either up until last night.

Go talk to each other. No ultimatums. No definites yet. Talk about what you want, what he wants, how you see your lives progressing.

I can see both their POVs. I don't want to demonise him (as I've said earlier) but do think if you're dead keen not to have children then you should make damn sure that it doesn't happen. Morris - your brother's situation is a bit different - of course lying is not okay and if someone says they are using contraception then you should take them at their word if you are in a trusting relationship.

I hope they find a way through that they are both feel okay about. It's a dreadful situation and I know also that while I've had a termination in the past, having miscarried since I'd find it a lot harder now.

We're all getting quite animated here and losing sight a little... I think what others have said about shock is true you need to wait a little and discuss it rationally. I know from my situation i struggled like OP with bonding with my DC2 and have struggled with depression a long time and recently admitted it and am now on medication. The last few years have been hard and while i have tried talking about a vasectomy with my DH as we have both agreed to not wanting any more. He just gets scared and says he'll think about it - I think he's doing the ostrich thing! I don't know what i would do in your situation - I think it would be a very similar reaction. And I know it would come from his fears of what it would do to me. I have a friend who has recently been hospitalised with PND and it could well destroy her relationship. My DH is i think scared that another child could do that to me, besides the financial implications... Hear his side and put forward yours about how a termination, intentional or not would affect you the same way a miscarriage would, and that perhaps with his support and your own understanding of why bonding with DD was so hard - it wouldn't necessarily be the same with DC3.
Good luck

There is not a waiting list in all areas and they don't make a man wait across the board. Some FPCs may make a woman wait until a year after her last child was born, but not all.

And you don't have to go NHS. And it's not that expensive privately, about £400-£500.

We looked into it in case there was an issue with DH because he is 32 (we were afraid he might be considered too young by the NHS).

As it was there were no issues. 'Are you sure?' 'Yes.' 'Okay, I'll make your referral. You should receive a letter within the next 4 weeks.'

If he were that dead set against having kids, then why have sex with no condom?

Seriously. They're adults.

I was planning to be sterilised myself. But DH and I looked at it together, because it's a more involved procedure for females and there is a longer recovery time and, of course, teh danger of ectopic pregnancy.

So he decided to go for it.

But it is an option if a person doesn't want any more children ever.

There is no way DH would leave if I decided to carry on with the pregnancy but that doesn't mean that he will be happy or that the relationship will be ok.

Yes I do think he is in shock. He said he feels like I had decided everything before I told him. Which is true in a way but only based on the fact that he said we would never terminate. He admits he has done a u-turn.

We have just had a horrible text row and now I feel worse. I am just praying once the news sinks in a bit he'll see things a bit more positively.

I was awful when DD was born and didn't love her properly for 6mths and often said I wished she'd never been born and shouted and screamed at her a lot. Looking back I probably should have got some help from GP but at the time I just thought I'd never love her like I love DS. Now I love her so much I have to keep telling people how lovely she is! But I think this is the main reason why DH is so against the pregnancy. Quite understandably.

And I think taking the MAP to prevent a possible preganancy from happening is quite different to terminating one that has already happened. To me anyway.