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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Narcissitic Personality Disorder (Part 2)

968 replies

Gettingagrip · 04/03/2010 10:41

Starting another thread for us survivors.

OP posts:
pinemartina · 16/05/2010 09:21

bsu -thank you!
And welcome! You are doing really well

Lucky you with the weather - it's chucking it down here....I'm spending the morning in bed,b'feeding baby ,watching dvd's with dd3 and eating coco pops!

beingsetup · 16/05/2010 13:07

Thanks Pine sounds like a nice relaxing day.

Mummiehunnie · 16/05/2010 16:02

bsu and pm, you are both doing so well x

I have had some significant things happen in the last week, and I am so pleased with the way I coped with it all, I have kept it all to myself, and learning that thing of how to keep things to myself is something that I have to learn to do by myself, and every so often I am working on choosing what is best to share and best to keep to myself with others x x x learning self reliance and not being so needy is so important to me right now!

I did fall a bit, and rang a family member, I asked as usual if they could talk, they said not right now love, and put the phone down, which was a rejection, but with kindness, I just needed to hear someone's voice so that I could be brave, as I needed to be brave, as I have such a phobia of what I was doing, and had no support, and was kind of making it harder on myself to make things better for others....

I did ok!

dignified · 16/05/2010 16:41

Pinemartina , i know exactly what you mean re the fix.
I was on the receiving end of hysterical rants , disturbing texts , and although it upset me , some part of me felt, he still loves me, i was still important.

And when he didnt, i almost didnt exist. I would sometimes welcome this abuse , other times i would contact him knowing full well i was going to be abused, but i needed my fix.

Deep stuff.

Mummiehunnie · 16/05/2010 16:44

dignified, pm, I can identify with that also, it is like you describe as being addicted to the fix of abuse, as it was what you were used to for so long, that being alone and without the drug is worse, that feeling goes, and you will be fine and happier alone! x

ItsGraceAgain · 18/05/2010 15:40

Brain dump alert. If it enlightens anyone else, just a bit, that's good. Just for me though, really.

Things XH did, which seem lovely but upset me at the time - though I couldn't think why. I thought there must be something wrong with me.

  • Turned up unexpectedly, on a beautiful sunny day, outside my (very expensive) hairdresser's in the vintage sports car he'd built. Paid my bill. Everyone in hairdresser's wildly impressed, of course.
    -> He had NEVER done anything like this before. I didn't even know he knew which salon I was going to. He arrived just as I was finished. It was a charming gesture but I felt ... stalked.

  • Took me an amazing spa for the day; waited uncomplainingly while I played around in the various pools. Back in the car, I said "That was lovely, I should go swimming more often to tone up." He replied, "Stop putting yourself down! You're always going on about what's wrong with you."
    -> Which wasn't anywhere near true, nor was it what I'd said. I felt ... threatened, which felt unreasonable of me.

  • Bought me clothes. He had excellent taste and knew which designers I preferred. The store assistants loved him.
    -> He invariably chose better than me, everyone agreed. We always bought the items he picked out, not what I (or the assistants) selected. I felt ... diminished, which felt ungrateful of me.

  • Suggested I quit my job at the bullying place, which was stressing me to the max. Repeatedly told me he wouldn't mind losing my income while I sorted something else out. Made this offer in front of friends and privately.
    -> Each time, I suggested we look at how the finances could work if I quit. Each time, he went into a stroppy "Trust me"-type sulk; the question was never answered. I felt ... trapped, which seemed self-defeating of me.

  • Appeared out of nowhere one night, when I was being harrassed by some men on the way home. Saw them off. Walked me home.
    -> Heroic of him and very lucky he was there, apparently ... but I felt stalked.

There's so much more. And I still have X#1 and my mother to consider! See how it works, anyone? Probably not, unless you've been there. It's like living in that village on "the Prisoner".
Ref: www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/manipulator/emotional_abuse.shtml

pinemartina · 18/05/2010 16:19

Grace - yes -just like the Prisoner...I know that feeling so well...and can "check" every on e of your examples with circumstances of my own....

-Turning up unexpectedly,all smart,the hero...everyone excited and swooning --yes,I loved this,looking back I also realise that it was like "Daddy" taking control.....

  • supported me with my work situation (bullying)suggesting I packed it in and went into business with him,then ,when it became nasty with potential demotion,backed out of th business plan and started blaming me for never taking his advice before it got so bad - therefore I had brought it on myself...

-Buying me clothes - absolutely identical !!!
I once went to "his" favourite shop (of clothes for me!!!) to buy myself a dress to wear for a surprise meal I had arranged to celebrate the sale of my house.....I spent ages choosing,trying on,asking the assistants for advise..we were certain he'd love it..it was unlike anything I would choose if not thinking of him...We had a lovely lazy day in the garden,I went up to change,he opened a chilled bottle of fizz and came up unexpectedly while I was dressing.....EXPLoded into laughter at the sight of me "WHAT are you wearing..OMG"....I was upset and told him it was a special surprise,said where I'd got it....he turned nasty ,shouting I was ridiculous and had no idea how to dress,I would embarrass myself and him going out like that,it made me look old and fat bla bla...I was in tears,asking how I could have got it so wrong -apologising !!! I changed into something he liked.
The dress went into the back of the wardrobe and months later I gave it to my middle dd who wore it to party.When she came down stairs,xp SHOUTED her praises,how fantastic she looked,gorgeous dress..etc and reminded me and told her,how awful it was on me.....

I could go on....

ItsGraceAgain · 18/05/2010 16:24

OMG, your dress story made me cry
Horrible, horrible man!

pinemartina · 18/05/2010 18:12

The awful thing is how much of that crap I experienced while considering that I was lucky to have met him,and trying to "get it right" so I could keep his love.......

I'm suddenly really angry about it all.....

I have been drifting into little sad dreams about all the " special times" for the past few weeks..as I used to each time we split up...

Now I am finding myself wishing I could go back to some of the bad scenes and kick him - and myself- into shape.....

How can abuse and bad behaviour be so powerful and effective when it is obviously so formulaic.....all the matching stories and accounts....

How are these bastards so compelling....

I feel like I'm waking up from a nightmare.It's like I was a little ,obedient shadow....how could I let him do that to me

Even though I know

ItsGraceAgain · 18/05/2010 18:16

< wishing I could go back to some of the bad scenes and kick him >
Made me laff out loud, PM! Thanks

ItsGraceAgain · 18/05/2010 18:22

That word ... After we'd split, friends talked about how soon he's settle with someone else. I remember saying, "As soon as he finds a woman more obedient than me."

Nobody picked it up. If only this forum had been around then! Or, if only my friends had had more insight & guts ...

Mummiehunnie · 18/05/2010 19:14

Good grief, my ex was no good at dressing himself never mind anyone else...

However the dressing things, I can offer some enlightenment to.... it seems to be a bit of clothes thing in my family....

I love clothes for me and kids, we have loads, and wear them, my mum loved clothes and has loads, my dad loved clothes and had loads, however as a child I had hardly any thinking back... My brother loves clothes and has loads...

I only remember advising ex on clothes when what not to wear had a thing for men, and we changed his trousers from those gathered waisted chino ones to nice smart flat fronted one's!

Now my father, he was an authority on clothes apparently, he would buy my mother very expensive clothes and get her to wear what he wanted... what was really funny is a couple of years ago he started to date a former Miss World contestant my parents knew in passing for years, and he was livid that she was making him wear a tie that matched her outfit, and he was moaning and complaining she looked like a traveller... all very odd indeed ok for him to do it not her to do it....

My brother, his first wife, she was American, he was not happy with her dress sense, he went out to top shop just before she was due to come to the uk for a visit with my mum and spent five hundred pounds he could not afford, on clothes for her as apparently she would shame him with the clothes she wore...

Brother was the golden child by both parents, and my father was his mothers golden child...

ItsGraceAgain · 18/05/2010 20:26

WOW, this is weird

So, now, the Mumsnet Original List of Narc Giveaways includes:

1] Turns up unexpectedly
2] Cannot choose between two similar paint colours
3] Tells you you're insecure, even if you weren't
4] Doesn't think your friends are good enough for you
5] Chooses your clothing
6] Gets hurt that you "don't trust him"

What have I missed?

It's still the paint colour thing that freaks me out. Guess what made my (builder) BIL say he'll never decorate for my mum again?!

ItsGraceAgain · 18/05/2010 20:30

Help, please, I want advice. You know I'm trying to get my courage together to re-contact old friends? Well, one got in touch with me. Trouble is, he's very narcissistic. We share a lot of history, have lived together (GBF) and he's funny. Plus, he got back in touch just when I was thinking about it. What should I do?

pinemartina · 18/05/2010 20:42

Firstly ,I think you could see this as an opportunity which has come at a useful time....

Just as you are strong enough and well armoured and AWARE .....

Of course,you could ignore or fob off or drop via distant contact,without re-connecting.....because you can then hone your inner thoughts and feelings about keeping away from a potentially difficult/unhealthy relationship.....

But you could re connect - in a way of your choice,all perfectly within your control,and enjoy the reminiscing about good times with a funny,charming old friend......with all your defences now stronger,healthier,than they have ever been,good support networks,excellent radar and total confidence in your ability not to be drawn into narc stuff..

A sort of participant observation study....?

thisishowifeel · 18/05/2010 20:48

I have painted over the magnolia/ hessian, whatever the hell it is TODAY!!!!!! And bought PURPLE curtains....aaaagggghhh!!!!

Get in touch...but as aquaintances, like someone you only kind of know....because with these lovelies...you don't really know them.

You may find that as you have changed and grown, there is not the same connection any more?

My h rang today....saturday really upset him. He wanted to know how he could make it better...I said I was not qualified to help him....he must find a professional to do that. And breathe....................

ItsGraceAgain · 18/05/2010 21:48

You are both right. He left a long message, every sentence of which began with "I" - and said he's so busy with demands on his talent that he could only spare a minute to ring me (three times in four days )

Maybe I'll just send a postcard or something.

ItsGraceAgain · 18/05/2010 21:49

thisis, double congrats due there, I think

pinemartina · 18/05/2010 22:00

Grace how liberating to be able to see that for what it is at first contact!!!

thisis well done! how wearing and difficult that he keeps on trying.

I have heard nothing and I really don't think I will now,since the solicitors letter.

I will be in his -very long- "those I HATE" list...at the top...

perhaps he will expire before dd is old enough to be his little adoringpuppetslave.....

ItsGraceAgain · 18/05/2010 22:05

I somehow doubt that any child of yours will become any kind of concatenated plaything, PM

pinemartina · 18/05/2010 22:17

What a FAB compliment ,Thanks, Grace

BertieBotts · 22/05/2010 14:18

Grace I agree with the others, get back in contact with him yes, but keep him at arms' length and be prepared to cut contact if you have to.

Hello all - I know I haven't been here in ages, but I just felt like I wanted to type out an experience with XP and get some other perspectives on it. I am sorry it has turned into a bit of a novel!

This was towards the end of our relationship, in fact about a year ago, it was around my birthday last year, the events of this week led to me having huge doubts about the relationship, three months later I found the first NPD thread, and the rest is history really.

Anyway, it was my birthday last year and my cousin M from Scotland was coming to stay for a week. I hadn't seen her in 3 years and was really excited to see her, as we were really close as children. XP hadn't met her at all. He seemed happy/indifferent that she was coming and was happy for her to stay in our spare room. (Although all he would ask was "Is she hot?" rather than "What does she do/is she interested in/etc" ) Anyway, so the first night I invited my mum and sister over (as they hadn't seen her in 6 years) and we decided to make a big chilli for everyone to share. I definitely told XP about this plan in advance, but when they all turned up he suddenly got all moody and said "Why are all these people in my house, I can't relax with loads of people round". (Funny, he seemed to be able to relax very loudly when his friends were round and kept me awake when I was pregnant or woke DS up when he was tiny) Also kept telling me I hadn't told him about the plan, or that he thought they were coming round another night, but wouldn't back down and say "Oh, ok, I misunderstood you" which annoyed me. Despite me spending ages on this chilli, he refused to eat any and holed himself up upstairs putting up some shelves with his friend. I was so embarrassed! Me, my mum, sister and M stayed up really late chatting and catching up, and although we were talking quietly, XP was in a mood by the time I went to bed, having lain awake waiting for me to come up, because he said we had kept him up.

The next day he was happy that it would just be me, him and M that night. He actually ate with us and then we all had a drink together. Except then he ended up having a really pointless argument with M about whether Scottish money is legal/accepted in England or not, and decided that she hated him, and that everyone in my family was against him. She was completely bemused by this and we talked it over the next day while he was at work and tried to work out why on earth he would have made his mind up so early on. She offered to babysit for us so that me and XP could go out for a meal, and the plan was that XP would look after DS while I went for a drink another night with M and my sister. Me and M tidied up the whole house and made it perfect, but when XP got home, I was putting DS to bed, he saw M and didn't even mention all the tidy house but walked straight through to the living room and got the hoover out as if to say "Oh, look at me, so hard done by, I have to do all this hard work" (Which he did most days, tidying/cleaning up while making loud huffing noises)

The day we were meant to go for a drink, XP didn't turn up home from work. I couldn't work out why, then texted him and he replied "I'm in the car" so I went down to the driveway and got in the car with him to talk to him. He just said he was too stressed out by having "all these people here all the time" and he wouldn't look after DS. We didn't end up going for a drink, M got a bit annoyed/frustrated with me just giving up on it without a fight and said "It's like he doesn't want to let you out". Eventually spoke to XP and he admitted that yes, he didn't want me to go out for a drink with M because he didn't trust her and basically expected me to get really drunk (magically because I was with this "bad influence" and shag some other bloke.

Then there was the disastrous ikea trip - this really was the culmination of everything. We went in two cars, me, XP and DS, and then my mum, sister and M. First, they got lost and went to the wrong car park, then we realised nobody had brought their phones and the only people who had phones hadn't swapped numbers. Eventually found each other in the cafe, had something to eat, and then walked round the shop. XP kept going off in a huff, god knows why, except that he didn't like M. He was doing that passive aggressive thing "Oh you go on, spend time with your cousin, you won't see her for ages, I know you like her more than me" By the time we got to the warehouse (after many arguments about what to buy and whether we could afford it etc) everyone was grouchy, we were all starving, XP was in a huge mood and M was starting to feel ill (with a cold). Eventually got through the tills and we had to go to that little collection point thing and wait for one or two things we had bought. DS was getting upset by this point so it didn't make sense for us all to wait, we took DS back to the car and I fed him. XP was waiting ages and getting more and more worked up because he was annoyed at being left to wait on his own (!) and then eventually when we got back to the car, we couldn't fit everything in. My mum ended up having to take DS home in her car because of the carseat being too big, but I thought that XP was going to break some of the stuff with the force he was cramming it into the car.

That night M said she would babysit so that me and XP could go out for a meal. She was still a bit annoyed that we hadn't been out for a drink yet (as was I, but I was going to let it go for a quiet life) but she felt that me and XP needed some time out for us. She was still feeling a bit rough with this cold, and DS didn't know her that well, so she asked my mum and sister to come over to sit with her. All perfectly innocent and fair reasons, I thought, but for some reason XP took great offence to this and the whole way there just ranted and ranted at me "She's so cheeky, how come she gets to have people over when she babysits, I would have to look after DS on my own, I can't believe she has done this." By the time we got there I really did not feel like eating, so I said "What's the point of going in here and paying for some nice food when I'm not even going to enjoy it, this was supposed to be a nice night. We might as well go home."

We spent the next 2 hours or so driving around the countryside having the biggest row of our relationship, but just going round in circles saying the same things. I told him I felt his behaviour was at times abusive, he demanded to know who had said this, I kept refusing until finally I said that I'd seen people post on mumsnet with similar things and they had been told their partners were abusive, and that my mum did like him but didn't like the way he treated me/spoke to me sometimes. But the whole conversation was basically him saying "I do everything for you, I would do anything for you, tell me what is wrong" and me ending up trying not to tell him everything that was wrong with him, it was weird, looking back it was very manipulative. But he kept saying "I'll be different, it's ok, just tell me what you want, you want me to be affectionate, and compliment you, I will." and me trying to explain that it wasn't good enough, I didn't want him to do it because I wanted him to do it, I wanted him to just do it because it came from the heart. Eventually it calmed down enough (or TBH I gave up because we were going round in circles and he wasn't getting it) and we did go for a meal but I really didn't enjoy it, I just wanted to cry. We talked about completely different things over the meal, if it strayed anywhere towards the argument he would get a warning kind of look in his eyes and change the subject. I noticed later that he would never talk to me about these serious things face to face, it had to be when he was driving, or in the dark in the middle of the night. Driving arguments were difficult because I was conscious all the time that he was in control of the car and I didn't want to say anything that would make him suicidal or make him stop in the middle of nowhere and kick me out (neither ever happened)

So eventually, I never got to go for a drink with my cousin, because her cold got worse quite quickly. I would not be surprised at all if it was living with the stress of XP - just for a week - that made her ill. My mum was really upset and angry that she'd babysat just so we could go out and have a huge argument. And during the holiday, M said to me if I ever decided to leave XP and needed someone to come and help pay the rent she would move in with me as soon as she finished at uni I didn't need her help in the end but it was a lovely offer. It probably pushed me towards thinking "It would be OK if I left".

Phew! Sorry that was so long, well done if you got through it all... took me about an hour and a half to write all that!

ItsGraceAgain · 22/05/2010 17:21

I think I know how you feel, Bertie. Despite the vast relief of realising that Jon, family and most friends were abusive (it wasn't all about me failing somehow), I am constantly harrassed by memories. I assume they're re-presenting themselves for evaluation in the light of my new knowledge. Since I have 50 years of these fucking memories to reframe, I guess it's going to take a while. Its very wearing

I've managed to become well-informed about emotional abuse in the 2 years since I 'discovered' it, but still know very little about the aftermath. I wouldn't be surprised to learn this is a normal part of the healing process. It makes me hate the buggers, for landing me with all these ishoos.

It's got to be helpful that your mum & cousin were alert to what was happening! At the same time, that must have been very difficult for you, emotionally. Manipulators do a fantastic job of making us doubt every doubt we have about them, twisting it round so we doubt ourselves. During the visit you described, you were surrounded by the very people you were closest to, and who loved you (as far as you knew) most of all.
That stuck you in the middle - with your mum saying he was out of order, and him saying you were wrong - you were effectively robbed of your common sense & judgement. Whatever you felt, and whatever you wanted to feel, would have seemed disloyal to one or the other. He set you up to be conflicted.

Funny what you said about the discussions in cars! Jon was the same, and so was my dad. I had thought this was some sort of rural habit, due to the enforced quiet time while having to drive everywhere. But maybe it's more to do with a captive audience?

You've touched on a whole bunch of other, familiar routines. Dad was fond of chucking me (sometimes) or Mum (often) out of the car in the middle of nowhere. When I told Jon about this, he laughed. He tried it later, but it's not so effective these days - as long as you have a mobile phone and some money

And I have been guilty of quite a few of the things you described, especially IKEA-related ones I have no idea whether I'm saner or not these days, as I'm still isolated, but I hope so! I shall still avoid self-serve furniture warehouses in company, though!!

Thank you very much for your post. I find it really helpful to read others' experiences, as they compare so closely with my own.

ItsGraceAgain · 22/05/2010 17:25

btw, I'm not going to re-contact GBF. I was all over the place when J proposed - I was sharing a flat with GBF at the time, and desperate to talk. I ended up screaming at him, in tears, to shut up about himself when I'd asked to discuss a momentous issue of my own. He was quite sweet after that ... but someone who's so deaf to your concerns isn't really a friend, is s/he?

ItsGraceAgain · 22/05/2010 17:45

Sorry for all the swearing I'm finding all this VERY hard going atm - the urge to shut down my questioning side, buckle down & shut up is overwhelming. I'm aware I have to fight it but it's feels like a fight and that is probably ramping up my simmering anger. I'm not sleeping properly, appetite is a mess, can't meditate, arrgh!!!
This had better be worth the effort ...

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