Narcissitic Personality Disorder (Part 2)

[Gettingagrip]

Starting another thread for us survivors.

Thanks for the posts. I have just read some of yours mummie and omg sorry you really have been through hell.

I feel totally stuck and nothing seems to change :0(. At the moment my husband is being ok and I do love him but he does outrageous stuff all the time - last year he was "working" 7 days a week morning and night and leaving me to do everything. He was also bragging that he was getting it elsewhere . He always says I need him more than he needs me and threatens me with whatever he thinks will work at the time.

I just feel sick in my stomach thinking I'm being set up in the same way as last time. I have written this post because last time I said nothing and had my life totally wrecked, hopefully if nothing else this post is affirmation I do have feelings and I'm not just going to take it.

I don't want to backstab anyone I want to find a peaceful resolution, especially having read mummie's posts - I can't go through that type of aggro.

Thanks it'sgraceagain for your post I don't know that the doctor would do anything and my kids are safe in fact he takes great care of them, its just me that is unhappy. Unfortunately to split up I need to accuse him of something such as emotional abuse and I'm not prepared to do that.

To be honest I don't even know where to start

Well, what stopped a lot of the agro, for me was becoming more aware of others and myself, I did that through therapy and lots of reading, it took a long time to accept, grieve and recover from childhood and adult abuse, as you have described you have been through being setup.

One book I would recommend, is the games people play, by Eric Byrne, being set up as you have as your name, is similar to being a victim and playing the game called "kick me", you can stop playing that game if you want to, it won't happen over night and other people will find it hard to cope, pushing you, and getting abusive towards you as they want the old you back, it is not easy to grow when surrounded by people who know the old you, sometimes you need a break or a permanent end to relationships, but not all x

So the thing you want most is a peacefull resolution, do you think that is possible with someone like your oh?

What exactly do you want to change about your life the most?

What do you think you can do to change first in your life?

What do you think will give you the strength to make the changes that you want in your life?

Thanks mummie I'll have a look for the book.

I think we can be peaceful I like him and love him just some of his behaviour is really out of order.

I just had a reading done and she hit the nail on the head saying his idea of integrity is flexible.

I don't think I can move out and it will be difficult to manage all the various childcare but I want to!

The one thing that makes me want to leave is how he is treating our eldest child I can't bear it and he himself said he is going to leave because of it.

I don't see many options open to me at the mo

Anyway how are you mummie - everything ok?

beginset up, you sound as if you are going around in circles and that you don't know how to move further or don't really want to move further with things, it would suggest to me that you are happy to stay as things are, or that you don't know what to do about it?

If you don't know how to fix things, and you don't have the answers, and don't like the answers anyone has given you, where do you think the answers will come from?

Do you think speaking to someone professional will help you work things through, and find the answers that you and your children need?

Women's aid can be very usefull in signposting, I wish you well beingsetup, and I do hope that you get to read the book, I have found it so useful in moving things along for myself and for working things out for myself x

pinemartina, you wrote on your Reality thread: "a potential partner should consider themselves very very lucky to be given a chance to get to know you."

Thank you so much for that
Seems obvious, but wasn't.

Grace
Not sure who said it 1st,but it really struck me.
When meeting new people - friends,colleagues, acquaintances and dates/prospective partners,
I intend to consider that view whilst having zero tolerance to even the tiniest concern - getting rid or running for the hills right away,no benefit of the doubt or sympathetic second guessed alternative view taken!

Yes,I may "hurt" the feelings of some genuine people - they will get over it.And if they are concerned or interested,THEY can seek clarification from ME...or provide evidence of their validity - or it will emerge a short while on anyway...

I may offend or disappoint...too bad,as above applies.

I intend to visualise a MN thread in which I voice any emerging concern as a thread asking for opinion ,then imagine the number of short ,sweet "get rid,imo" replies it might generate....in fact,MN ought to have a " should I GET RID or not ?" thread rather like AIBU......

Missing some nice people through high standards will be a small price to pay for avoiding abusers...

beingsetup sorry to hear what is going on and horrified at what happened with your 1st husband...
So glad you are questioning all this now and posting here...I think you may be taking the first steps to change......

You are getting some good advice here!

I just want to point out that you describe your husband as being very caring towards the kids,yet further on,you say that it is his treatment of your eldest which is giving you greatest concern..."I can't bear it" ,you say...

Please listen to yourself here and DON'T bear it...it is not caring to treat one child badly, even while being ok with the others.

The message this unequal treatment - and your tolerance/condoning of it sends to all of your dc's will be confusing and disturbing to them all.They are all suffering the effects of emotional abuse.

You say you are not prepared to accuse your h of emotional abuse.Please consider this with regards to your dc's who don't have a choice to consider...they ARE experiencing abuse ,whether you ACCUSE him or not.

Facing the effect my xp's behaviour towards me was having on my dc's was the unpleasant first step for me in ending contact with him and losing my hope of saving/repairing what I wanted to be a worthwhile relationship.

ONce I accepted the dc's position,it was no longer a choice.It had to be done.

Carry on being strong,and posting here.Good luck.

Beingsetup, you don't need permission or some sort of excuse to say enough is enough. Your unhappiness is enough by itself to end it.

Mummyhunnie, would the McKenzie Friends be any use to you in the court proceedings?

Pinemartina, I could not agree with you more, regarding the emotional abuse the children are all suffering, the thing is, it is not always as easy to see when you are in the middle of it, and I wonder if beginsetup is even aware of it properly, hence her confusing posts relating to her ex and his relationships with her children. When in denial, some will look for anything positive to make things not be as horrible as we fear they are.

The thing is what may be needs to be pointed out to beingsetup, is that her children will think that behaviour is normal and either abuse or be abused, according to their family role, golden child abuser, scapegoat will then be setup for a lifetime of abuse, from friends, family, partners, school, employers and most social situations, it is all so very sad!

Pine it was you that inspired me to write on here sorry for what you are going through. we all have our own crosses to bear I guess,but to put up with your parents and ex being for want of a nicer word, mad, must be totally horrific. I really hope you are finding some more positive things in your life. What you said about doing all the work with your kids and getting no affection or cuddles really hit home, although my lovely kids do give me alot of cuddles.

ouch mumm. My eldest behaves really badly and winds up his dad always telling him he hates him which results in his dad overreacting, but he does have bad relationships in general and feel alone and left out. I try my hardest to show him that's not true and have stuck up for him at home and in pubic so many times.

My husband won't leave, the council won't kick him out and I can't afford to leave. We do live in peace alot of the time, we don't really have a relationship Im more like the live in nanny and I feel stuck. I am doing a couple of things to try to change my situation, but they are all based upon other factors. I'm really hoping something wil come together soon.

I have tried to base my way of being a m and single parent family around my experiences and knowledge of Therapeutic Communities and Social Therapy....

Sorry if that sounds very high-minded...
I looked for a useful link and found this one -
here

I really don't want to sound as if I have some kind of "modern parents" (Viz) household!!!

It's just that,as a child ,I was always aware of that terrible sense of unreality and walking on eggshells;the truth being entirely flexible and subjective based on seemingly random circumstances.

So when I did my Psychi nurse training and learnt about TC's ,I was really excited.My experience working in them ,and personal therapy I started at the same time, gave me a "new family model" which seemed a recipe in how not to be like my parents......

That is how I stopped the pattern repeating with my dc's (I am the parent,but whatever feedback I get from them,they don't parent me,which is healthy for dc's ,and I'm not so bad,but.....)

Basically,it's just about being "real" all the time .So that anyone may say anything ,and is encouraged to do so,but must try to speak only for themselves and to allow that the response they get may not be the answer they wanted bust nevertheless must also be respected as a valid expression by the one offering it.

We do circle time pretty often

I hope it doesn't sound heavy - it really isn't,And it does work.

There's a really high value on respect,consideration and treat as you wish to be treated.

I believe this is equipping dc's to understand and maintain their own boundaries and identify ,reject and deal with,unacceptable behaviour - usually hurtful - in others.

beingsetup ---Sorry I got on my soapbox then!!!!!

What I wanted to say was ---you deserve better and I am so sorry you are not being valued and cared for by your h as you should be.

I agree with mummie

And was just wondering whether you can feel strong enough to talk to your dc's ,especially ds in such a way as to explicitly challenge what they see and sense going on around them - the stuff which is making you so sad....In this way,you limit the damage as described by mummie,due to their internalising the message that this is all ok and normal.

Basically,that is my MAIN AIM with my dc's ,and is really what all the stuff in the post above is about.

For example, when my xp was around in a bad mood,I would be sure to talk to dc's in a calm,chatty way saying how it was HIS mood,about HIM and - when I was trying to make it work - I LOVE XP BUT i DONT AGREE THat his cross mood should make us all sad.I know he said it was m's fault,but only he can be respopnsible for his behaviour etc etc

My dc's and me have come through 3 rubbish relationships and have had plenty of practice...

Thank you for the Sanctuary link, PM. I'm still ploughing through the site - this probably is the wrong forum to comment, but nevermind. As soon as I started reading, I realised that this is the model for The Priory's addiction wing. I can't speak for the other areas, which were tangential on my treatment. My 29 days there were, and remain, my only experience of safety. It was so unfamiliar to me, I couldn't put a name to it!

On my second day, others in the group asked us newcomers how we were finding it. Alongside predictable complaints about the food & accommodations, several of us said we felt it was "lovely", "warm", "welcoming" ... then someone said: "I feel safe here." Without warning, several of us began to cry. I had no feeling of sadness, and made no sounds; it was, I think, the only time 'my eyes have cried' like in the movies! I suppose it was relief. For the very first time in my middle-aged life, I felt safe.

I probably have some idea of how you implement this in your family environment - it's not too dissimilar to the way I was trained to manage tricky child-related situations - but I can't, in all honesty, imagine how it is. For all their tribulations, I envy your children the 'safeness' that you try to instil to their inner core. I admire you for doing it.

Where is your safety, PM?

begins crying

((pinemartina)) I hope you feel safer soon.

You can make a new reality with your kids now maybe you will feel better as the days go past.

I wanted to thank you all because if you had not written what you had written yesterday, then when my husband kicked off last night at my eldest son because he stood on a potty then screamed at me not to interfere when I asked what had happened I would not have finished with him, which I did.

He says he is moving out but I don't know whether to believe it or not, he's never left before. But he has said he needs to leave because he does lose control with my son.

Anyway I don't know how we will pay the bills or what we will do but I guess that will just happen. I'm still in shock at the moment, we've been together a long time.

Thanks again all he WAS being out of order to my son and it's not right.

bsu - how very brave of you,well done.

You are right,he was out of order,it's not right
so, well done for sticking up for your ds - your taking a stand will have had a positive impact on him,and other dc's

Try to hold out with h now,on what you told him last night.
It's good that he has recognised that he is losing control .
Whatever happens in your family in the future,will be healthier for you all if you follow through at this point,and insist that h leaves asap.

It is difficult and can be scary.So keep posting and ask for help from people around you.

Paying bills etc...will sort itself out,it's the easy part in lots of ways.

Thinking of you

wow, bsu, well done! How very brave, and wise of you

Everything pinemartina said. Stay strong, keep posting, be well. x

Thanks pm and iga for the kind words. :0) I know I have made the right decision and the kids seem happier already - we are actually talking about dicussing things instead of fighting. I am pooping myself though and a little wary of asking for help from people around. But I know I can cope and will be ok. I just hope he doesn't try anything as he does tend to make threats when hes angry.

pm Ive been reading your reality thread and Im sorry you are having such a hard time of it, but well done for not blaming yourself and being so patient. It s so easy to lose it and join in, and it takes a lot of strength to step away and not engage in it. I only hope I have as much strength as you.

Beingsetup

Have you seen this and this ?

being set up, how very brave of you x

Pm, how are you feeling now?

Hi Mh - sad sad sad mostly
angry too - but that one's been around longer and I 'm more used to it...

I have been thinking a lot about what kept me hanging on with xp...he was easily the most reliably nasty, difficult, awkward and controlling man I have ever been involved with...it's so easy to see that now - like mist lifting.

He was stunningly attractive at the beginning,for a while,and could be charming and delightful always,but when I think about it,apart from 3 weeks last July,I was on eggshells so much that there was hardly any pleasure for the majority of the relationship.

That's incredible.
Yet I adored him and believed he was everything to me.And I am grieving terribly.

But I think his behaviour was so similar to my mothers - the constant gaslighting ,constant whether in nice or bad mode- that I latched onto him instantly and gave him all that he needed to perfectly mirror my ideal back to me - (like a mother to a baby?)and I then held out in good faith of that original perfect man.

Who didn't really appear much at all after about 6 months....

The last 10 months he's grown fat,hardly washed or shaved,worn work clothes most days - same shirt for weeks - and stomped about,scowling.

And I came to expect nothing.I really find it hard to believe quite what I put up with,not questioning,trying hard to get back to what I thought he was really like.

But actually,what I was getting was what he was really like.The initial stuff was the bait.and I swallowed it.

The "fix" I've sought all my life has been loving attention.
I have no idea what it is supposed to feel like or look like for "normal" - not abused - people.
I have put up with/tolerated endless crap and abuse,just in the hope that I would get some "love" at some point.

It's never been about the need to be in a couple - xp never lived with us ,and I generally only saw him Saturday evenings when dc's with me,weekends away when not.

But I always enjoyed whatever else I was doing while not with him,all the more because I was looking forward to my fix at some point.

It bothers me that although I had a lovely afternoon with dd2 and baby today and a snuggle up with both this evening,and I am actually enjoying the freedom from the control and fear...my enjoyment is lacking that dimension of anticipated satisfaction ahead...

Xp txing me constantly actually soothed me and reassured me that "love" was there.

That was the hook.Once I'd swallowed it,he could ,and did do anything,in any way and I contentedly put up with it and accepted it in exchange for my love fix.

That is child-mother stuff surely?
And I am craving it now

Re-reading your last two posts together, PM, I wonder whether you're feeling rather as though the pain of abuse is what you "must" suffer in order to get your love fix? I realise you know this intellectually: you know it, with all its lying faces and inevitable pitfalls. It's a false bargain. This knowledge, by itself, sometimes isn't enough to protect us from the craving ...

... like the crack user, who knows what the drug is doing to her; hates what her dealers demand of her; does it anyway.

To elevate the sickness of a morbid love to the level of an addiction is an error. It's the delusion that keeps co-dependents hanging on. You will learn to love yourself as wholly as your children love you. You can start now, by turning your attention inwards for a little while
Centre yourself, take a few lungfuls of lovely air. Do something simple, just for you.

Sorry if this was all off-target. Humour me please

It's interesting that you read it like that...
What I meant was that the pain of abuse is what I have always "had" to suffer to have "love"

• I recognise how similar the behaviour of xp is to that of my mother,and I wonder if that led to my developing an instant submission and enactment of the same dynamic that existed in my childhood....

So in that sense you are right- as a child,the two only came together.

Therefore at some level,I cannot separate the love from the abuse ,they are part of the same thing.

The toxic attachment that was the nearest I had to love.
That is what was so morbidly attractive,compelling and "addictive" when offered by xp

The fix is the tiny crumbs of positive regard, in between the crap ,that I was delighted and grateful to receive...

He tapped into that,and once he had it set up,the show ran itself - as it had when I was little- so familiar and comforting and "right"

I'm not sure I have any idea what other love there is - not in a feeling sense - at least, not to receive it from a grown-up ...

I fully intend to learn to love myself.

I do not ever want any of this again

I am going cold turkey on it right now,just like when I first left home.

Having got just these few days down the line,I'm not going back there.

((pinemartina)) YOU ARE A LOVELY STRONG SANE PERSON. And thank god for this thread! And how self aware you are. I relate to most if not all of what you have said. Miggsie thanks for those I've had a brief look and will read in more detail when I have the time, it looks very familiar shockingly so. Apologies my enter button is not working so no paragraphs this morning. My husband is leaving and looking for somewhere to stay. Like yours pine he is really good looking. But he's gotten on that crazy train, where every word has hidden meaning, everything loaded, where I go what I do what I say the music I play is all a secret hidden code to him. I loved my first husband soooo much I would have done anything for him, so I did take a ride on the crazy train and it's a game you can never win. As It'sgraceagain said about trying harder and harder - well that's what I did first time around and all for nowt. This time I'm saying I'm sorry if it hurts you but I just don't care what you think I might be thinking, I can't go to crazyville, and I would much rather be alone, bored and NORMAL, than trying to fit an inceasingly warped reality that is not my own. I'm joining Pine on the cold turkey wagon, if she'll have me. And on a lighter note what an incredibly beautiful day it is today, lovely sunshine birds singing, it's enough to make anyone joyful.