Is this man running away or just wary?

[hellisempty]

Okay, deep breath, name changed?
I have been casual friends through work with a chap for several years. we never socialised and I never knew his family or anything ? just simply a salesman at work that I chatted to when he made his rounds. We met up again last year after losing touch for a few years and the friendship came straight back but more flirty, cheeky and friendly. We swapped numbers and texted for a couple of weeks. He told me he had a DS who was a year younger than my own and that he?d split with his last GF as she was getting too serious. We arranged to meet up a few times and had ?fun? and it was really nice. Needless to say I fell for him very hard!

He had said he would not let a casual GF meet his son as he was worried about giving him the wrong idea or confusing him which sounded reasonable. The problem is that this man plays hot and cold a lot and I am not sure if I am being strung along or not. I had asked him if I was a casual thing and he said I was very much planned and worst case I was a friend whether I liked it or not!

He invited me to spend New Year?s Eve with him and turned down invites from his family and friends to be with me, then he asked me to go bowling with him and his DS and of course my DS which went really well and I wondered if this meant something? being tested on approval for example? He had already met my son a number of times since I am a single parent and can?t always get childminders and he does ask how he is getting on and has brought treats for him on one occasion.

He surprised me with a visit on a couple of occasions, which was lovely and then gave me a valentine card. I had actually sent him one not knowing if I would see him since he does live quite some distance away from me and I was surprised when he hand delivered me one. Nothing slushy or anything just a funny card with my name written in it.

I asked if he had got mine and he said he had but he had not known if I would get him one and thought it was nice to give. I was not sure if that meant he always intended to get me one or if he was just trying to make it seem like he was not getting me one out of obligation.

The last time I saw him was lovely and he said that he had really enjoyed spending time with me. He said he enjoyed it even when we just chatted and each other?s company. He referred to the bowling day out and said he had a really good time just being with me.

This last week or so I have not heard from him though. He does sometimes go through an illusive phase every now and then and I think that it means he has lost interest but then he is suddenly just the same as normal. Anyway, I got a message last Saturday from him and nothing since. I have sent him 3 text messages this week and not had a reply. He is a busy chap and an active father and he has been away on business so I don?t know if it is just one of those things or if he is dodging me.

I could kick myself for texting now instead of ringing. I never rang for fear of what he might say if I am honest!! But now I cannot ring because it would seem like I am stalking him!!! So?. Is he just a busy chap afraid of commitment and taking 2 steps backwards and 1 step forward or is he actually dropping me?

Sorry it is long!

I only said he does not have caller display etc in reply to someone who said they knew he would not answer if I called. If I had called his mobile and my number came up then yes he could have deliberately dodged me if he wanted to but since I rang his house phone - for no other reason than I get free calls to landlines - he could not have known it was me when his phone started ringing so the fact that he did not answer does not confirm that he was deliberately dodging me over any one else who could have decided to ring him this evening.

I am not sure how calling him could be construed as trying to catch him on the back front... it is simply wanting to speak to him so I know one way or another instead of just suspecting what is happening. I don't announce to anyone else that I am going to call them before I do so to some extent it is always catching someone on the hop and they will either want to or have time to speak to you or not.

I am not desperate for a man. I don't want just anyone and would not rush off at the first man to show me attention in the hope that it would lead to happy ever after but I see what you are saying and why you would come to that conclusion.

I am 33. There really are no decent men around here who are single sadly. I won't share and I am not taking some numpty just for the sake of having a bloke, that would be worse than being alone.

I am just fed up and hurt and just don't want to have to go through years of this trying to find someone worthwhile.

I thought I had that with my ex DH but apparently not and no one else since has restored my faith that there is someone for everyone.

I honestly do not believe that. There are so many people who are single, miserable, alone or a combination thereof that it simply cannot be true. I don't believe it anymore than I believe in what goes around comes around because if that was true my ex would be burning in a firey pit for everything he did to me and DS and I would have the life that I want but in reality he lives a great life and is happy and I am lurching from one romantic disaster to another.

I swear off dating and avoid men like te plague and only nagging from family and friends makes me come out of hiding to try dating again and when I do it ends disasterously. Only ever for me of course! So I think perhaps I should actually trust my instincts for a change and stay in hiding romantically and just concentrate on being happy without it.

I am happy in general... work is a pain and I am looking to do something about it but basically I am happy in life so the man thing is not to make me happy. I can make me happy all on my own... however... I am lonely sometimes and I think having a partner - the right one - would be a nice complimenting factor to my life.

Nobody's saying you should hide away forever

You have to kiss a lot of frogs before you find a prince! I think the reason I got irritated with your posts (sorry) is because you were so keen for this relationship to be something it clearly isn't.

I live in a small rural town, too, and haven't met one man in 3 years that I'd wax my legs for!! So I know what you mean ... more frogs than princes, heh.

But still, no amount of hoping will turn the best-looking frog into a price (OK, I'm overworking this now). You were mad to assume more to the relationship than there was. It was barmy not to ask the guy how he felt about this. And slightly bonkers to keep phoning him when he hasn't answered your texts.

Believe me, I do know what you mean about hoping for the best! And I should be more gentle in the way I write to you - I apologise for that. I stick by what I've said, though. You need to look to yourself more. The world doesn't hate you, you are not doomed to a life of shitty relationships, you don't have to stay indoors for the next ten years, there's nothing wrong with a fun relationship that doesn't go anywhere.

I kind of doubt that any of this has made any kind of impression. At least I tried

I reckon if you have to ask mnet about a relationship you already know the answer.

I do take on board what you have all said... a lot of it makes a lot of sense and perhaps some of it was not what I wanted to hear but I asked for opinions and would rather have honest opinions than people pat me on the back and tell me what I want to hear just for the sake of making me feel better so I do thank you for your honesty and I have considered what you have said. There is an update though...

He called me at about 10 tonight and we have just finished chatting. He said that his phone died during the week - it is a touch screen thing and the screen froze and his phone beeps when a message comes in or a call but he cannot answer it. With work he has been unable to get it into the shop for a repair but he plans to do that tomorrow. He said that until I rang and left a message he did not have my number as he just has them stored on his phone!

He said he was really pleased when I rang and left a message so that he could have my number to call me back. I was very cynical about that and said so but he insisted that he was really pleased that I called because he said he was sure I would have texted and would have wondered why he was not in touch and you can't get my number from calling directory enquiries either. He has taken my number and will let me know when he has a new text number or his phone back and he will now ring me instead.

We chatted in general, weather, work, films etc etc and then got onto the issue that I have been bugging you all with. He said that he really likes me, enjoys spending time with me, wishes I was closer so we can see each other more often and when I move closer that will happen but...

He said he is worried about me getting hurt. He said he does not want to cause me any pain at all and to some degree he is also worried about getting hurt himself so he always has his guard up because the last time he was in a casual relationship which became more he got hurt because the girl did not feel the same for him and it ended and they never saw each other again.

He said that at the minute he is so busy and very time poor but enjoys his life as it is. He said he is happier now than when he was married - this came about because he asked me if I was happy so I asked him the same question back - and his concern is that he does not know if the reason he is happier is because he leads to some extent - the single life of doing what he wants and is therefore not ready for some big committment or if it is because that particular relationship was not the right one for him and one with someone else would be better.

With the distance and his job it is not a question that can be answered easily since we cannot see each other as often as we would like.

He then asked me if I am happy with the way things are with us and then he answered immediately and said forget that, of course you aren't happy. You would rather this was an exclusive relationship heading somewhere. He said he wasn't sure that he could answer if we would make it as a couple or not which holds him back a bit in case we end up hurt.

I said that I was not interested in pinning him down, rushing him to the alter or anything like that I just wanted honesty. I said that no one knows how a relationship is going to pan out. It either works or it doesn't. I said sometimes you find it where you never thought of looking and then other times you think you have found your soul mate only for them to dash you completely... it is more about the journey, having fun and seeing where it takes you. It ends up in one of only a few scenarios which are working out, not working out but staying friends or not working out and never speaking ever again but nobody can predict that.

he said... it is all about the journey then? and whilst corny I think that is right.

I just want to know that we both know the rules and that way either one of us can choose what is enough, too much or not enough and that any decision is based on all of the facts. He said he was concerned that I was too adaptable which meant that I might put up with more than I should and he did not want to hurt me but as I have had pointed out to me on here - perhaps in different words but wisely said - he can only hurt me if I give him that power so the decision is mine.

Basically I think he is saying he likes me, would see me casually, would see more of me if I was closer but is not ready for anything heavy enough to call itself a committment.

I therefore have to decide if I am prepared to accept that, see what happens knowing full well that there is a good chance that it won't lead to anything and I will get hurt. Or I can walk away now and get hurt now.

I told him that I was not prepared to accept him not being in contact. I said that both of us deserved the respect of the other one saying they did not want to continue in whatever way rather than them just vanishing from their life without a trace and he agreed to that and again said it was simply because his phone died and he was really pleased I got in touch.

So... I guess it answers some questions then!

oops... sorry it is so long!
If I was a screenwriter this would have been made into a trilogy!

sorry guys

It was me who started the conversation inadvertantly. He asked how everything was in general and I told him about my job interview that I had this week and my friend going on holiday. He asked where and for how long etc, the polite questions and he sensed something from my tone and I admitted I had rowed with my friend. He asked what about and I said she told me I was being gullible and stupid and I was annoyed at the way the conversation had gone. He asked what I was being gullible about and I paused and realised where I had blundered and he said it was okay if I did not want to talk about it that was fine but I thought that was actually a good opportunity to find out what I wanted to know so explained that my friend thought I was gullible because her opinion was that if we were not dating properly I was being used and he was shagging around. It went on from there.

He really cannot move closer as easily as I can move closer to him. He lives in the town he does only so be can be near to his DS which I actually think is a very good thing. He then commutes to the next town 30 miles away where his job is based and then travels from there to his calls.

If he moved to be closer to me he would not be able to see his DS as much, go to school functions, take him to his clubs and so on and I would not want him to miss out on that for me. As he owns and I don't he would have to sell his place and he would not be able to get a big enough place here for both of us all on his current salary and I am sceptical I could get a mortgage - long story with the ex - which means coming off the property ladder for him. Not necessarily a good move financially. Plus he would need to change jobs too as he could not commute from here for his work and in a rural area there is no work like he does.

I however have my son full time. His dad has cut all contact completely and has not seen him in 18 months so I can pick up and move without there being any real consequence and if I pick a decent area my son would benefit from more activities on offer too.

I know this sounds like I am making excuses but I stand firm on this point I agree that I am a far better bet for moving than he is. Also, I was looking to move before we even started I just considered his area as one to go to because of him. I was always going to have to move out of rural with the stuff going on at my work so he is only encouraging something pre existing.

As for what I want.... well that one is easy.... I still want him!.

I know it is illogical and probably close to criminally insane but the happiness I felt just talking and laughing with him just made me forget how miserable I had been this week for those couple of hours.

That being said, I think I need to sleep on it all and mull it over so I am not blinded by that brief happiness into thinking it is all going to go the way I want.

I am so crazy about him that I am tempted to go along with casual and see what happens in the future. I figure if I am going to get hurt anyway (now if I cut and run or down the line when I want more and he still doesn't) then what difference does it make when I stop seeing him if I can handle it?

I would not take more than I can handle and I wonder if the conversation cleared the air enough that there would be more communication in the future and everything would be very honest so I would see exactly the lay of the land without having to guess, assume, analyse and hope.

However I do have to consider that I am just heading for a great big fall again but doing so willingly this time. Is it so wrong to hope that if we just continue as we are he could see me as more? Can men who are committment scared feel braver over time?

I am guessing a lot of people would be busy screaming at their screams and calling a raving looney tune about now... so I will try to sleep and think about it more objectively tomorrow.

Your thoughts and opinions are welcome...

"Basically I think he is saying he likes me, would see me casually, would see more of me if I was closer but is not ready for anything heavy enough to call itself a committment."

sorry to blunder in and be so blunt but this is the most sensible thing I think you have said in the whole thread. It is lovely that you like him so much and sounds like you have a good time together. I liked that you said you both deserve the respect of not failing to get in contact.

However, he has made it abundantly clear that this is a casual arrangement and has made no promises for the future. Whilst you are enjoying this relationship it seems (to me) like you have far too much invested in this to approach it casually. You may say that it is all about the journey but that is not the way it is coming across and if he is stating that he is worried about hurting you then it seems that maybe that is coming across to him too.

If you want to move then move but it needs to be about improving life for you and your ds not about this relationship - him giving you details of estate agents proves this much.

If you cannot see this as a bit of fun and are looking for something more serious (which you are absolutely entitled to do btw) then it is not fair on you (or him) to carry on this relationship expecting it to change. Sometimes these things change but he is not giving any indication of it and you deserve more than to feel you are chasing him all the time.
Good luck x

1. He's a salesman who didn't have another mobile with him to which he could've transferred the SIM card?
2. He's a salesman who spent the week without a phone?
3. He told you he's not interested.
4. There is not "casual and see what happens in the future" - see point 3)

I too have lived in a very rural community. For 4 years. In a foreign country. Where I was not fluent in either of the 2 local languages. 45 miles from my office. I met a few twonks. The minute I started respecting myself I started falling over nice men. I honestly think you have very low self-esteem and are desperate for a man. I mean look how insanely excited you are that a man vaguely discusses his personal life with you at home!

hellisempty - I think you need to listen, really listen to what he is saying, rather than what you want to hear.

He's making it as clear as he can that he's just up for a casual, no strings, no commitment "relationship".

You clearly want something different.

If you carry on hoping for something more, then you need to accept the fact that it might not happen.

It also depends if you feel like hanging on and waiting for him to change. I just don't think that is going to make you feel good in the long run. And anyway, you both need to be on the same page for this sort of casual thing to work and you honestly don't sound as though that is what you want.

If you do, and it doesn't end up the way you want it to, it's going to reinforce your feelings that there's nothing out there for you. Which isn't true.

Easier said than done though, to walk away, when you don't want to!

Hope you work it out - best of luck.

My new phone died recently. I am not a saleswomen but I do have a job which covers a large travelling area and I need my phone. It has all my numbers stored on a web server but the phone couldn't access it and I couldn't get them. Vodaphone took the phone back and replaced it but it had to be sent away....4 days I was phone less.

I replaced it with a PAYG but couldn't get the numbers stored on the other phone.

So the phone tale is possibly true

It sounds to me as if you are both discussing relationships and cautious of committing which I think is a good thing. Honesty is all you can ask for.

Go slowly. Protect yourself

He does have a work phone, a BlackBerry. He is not allowed to use it for personal use and all calls, emails and texts are itemised and monitored. However... good point about swapping the sim card. He could have done that, transferred his phone book and then looked the numbers up and called me from home to explain. Would not have taken long to delete the numbers back off his BlackBerry again.

I am not desperate for any man otherwise I would have thrown myself at some of the other idiots who have tried it on but I do want to find the right man. I was prepared to kiss a few frogs and have fun along the way in the hope that one day I would find the right one but now I am not so sure I want to keep putting myself through this.

I do have low self esteem. I am so strong and confident in lots of ways believe it or not. I have always held high positions in offices, I am very capable and a high achiever in that respect but when it comes to this aspect of my life I cannot get it right.

My ex stripped away all vestiges of self worth I had and whilst I am better now and can do a good act - this guy actually said once he found me to be very confident and self assured probably because I am not this basket case in front of him - I cannot keep it up for long!

When I am with him I am the kind of person I want to be. Fun and confident and cool headed and so comfortable. I have never felt as comfortable with a guy as I do with him. He makes me feel so confident like I could do anything in the world. He just seems to bring out the real me that has been hidden under years of being ripped down.

I have been told before that unless I have self worth no one else is going to think I am worth it but I honestly don't know how to build up my own confidence. I can blend into the background so easily and I hate being the centre of attention, I keep myself to myself and don't make waves. I don't want to stand out in a crowd and feel so self conscious in a lot of social situations. A lot of the time it was the whole principle of hiding away so no one would notice me because if they did not know I was there they could not tear me to shreds.

For some reason with this chap I feel different, I can be more assertive and confident and flirty and sexy and fun and passionate and I come out of my shell. To me he was worth coming out for.

But it would seem that I have come out of my shell for someone who is not interested in me or taking a chance with me. He is not cruel and nasty like the rest of them have been. I genuinely do think he is a decent guy but still... it just compounds everything I have ever felt about myself. It is one of those horrid catch 22 situations.

No one will think I am worth it if I don't think I am worth it but I can't think I am worth it because no one else agrees! And there is an element of self fulfilling prophesy in this too quite ironically. I just am one of those people who need the validation of being loved because I have never really felt loved.

I don't want to be with someone for the sake of being with someone. I have turned people down because they were not right for me or idiots right off the bat or because I knew it was not the right time for me and I was happy being single but I do want to find the right one that I can be happy with. I know that this takes time and I know that you never can predict how things will turn out. I don't expect to marry a guy or live happily ever after just because we are having fun but I do want to have exclusive fun and see where it takes us.

If I could change how I think about things or myself then I would but this is me.

And at the moment I am aware that I am being totally pathetic

thanks for that petitioner. I must admit I don't know his numbers off by heart and never saw the need to since they were on my phone. However... being a woman (sexist I know!) I plan for eventualities like this and I have all important numbers written down just in case...

He is not a planner.

Actually, I don't think this man is being particularly cruel. I think he is trying to be fair to you. He keeps saying that he doesn't want a serious relationship, but you are NOT LISTENING.
He is, probably understandably, reluctant to say 'Look HIE all I want is a fuck now and again without hours and hours of talking about Our Relationship and Where It's Going' in so many words, but he's making it pretty clear in every other way.

Not really much I can say to that!

Guess I just have to decide if I want to walk away or stay and accept it is just for now and nothing more.

my honest opinion:

you are way more into him than he is into you. you will get hurt.

i strongly suggest you walk away from this and move on, hard as it is. best case scenario is that he turns around and says he does want more. worst case scenario is that you suffer a bit now, but move on, saving yourself a lot more hurt.

i also know you won't take my advice, because you're in love with this chap but bear it in mind. don't come on too strongly

That "I can handle it" is a classic line used by alcoholics or drug addicts, you know. (My apologies if you were being deliberately tongue in cheek there!)

If you do decide to stay in the relationship for the good times, it is far more realistic to expect that one day you will start to see him as a bit of a twit, and find it easier to break off, than that he will come round to wanting a committed relationship. I hope it does happen that way, because it would be a lot less painful than the even more likely scenario that he will end it long before you are ready. Right now everything he does is perfect because that's what love does to people. It has a lot to answer for, but then again if we were all cool and sensible the human race would have died out long ago.

Hi Anniegetyourgun... sorry which line are you referring to? Not sure where it is to check the context.

I can assure you that neither of us are alcoholics or drug addicts if that helps! Each to their own of course but not for me and from our conversations not for him either.

I do love this guy... and I can appreciate what you guys are saying. I do appreciate the advise and I can see the sense in it all. Honestly I can! I know that if I walk away now I am going to hurt like hell and move on one way or another.

If I stay then I could have a good time with the guy I love if I can reign myself in enough to be sensible but that the likelihood is it will end one way or another and I will be hurt then. Which will hurt most... the one I am preparing for in the long run or the rip the plaster off right now one I don't know.

I am not sure I can base it on how much I will get hurt now or then because for me love doesn't work that way.

I am trying to base it on do I want my life right now to have this man in it or not and the answer is I do. My life would go on as before without him and I would do fine but do I want to do just fine or do I want to feel alive and special for a bit?

If I was to continue and then just lost interest myself and saw him as a twit as Annie says then that might not hurt as much because that would be my choice. Of course him ending it first would be a bummer!

the problem i have is that YOU'RE not being honest with him. you're not saying 'i love you and i will accept anything you're willing to give me'. he senses that and that's why he's saying he doesn't want to hurt you. yet you expect honesty from him.

sorry Warthog, not sure I follow.

Are you saying he knows how I feel but the fact that I have not actually said it to him is a problem?

I have told him in not so many words. He knows this other guy had made a few advances and had joked about it. He said he - the other guy - was jealous because he no longer acknowledges my salesman chap when he comes into work. They used to chat, small talk, weather, journey, how's things etc but since we started this 'whatever' the other guy just blanks him!

I said I did not know if he was jealous or not but it really didn't matter because he was the one I liked. Said it was obvious how much I liked him.

So okay.... have not said I love you but then I did not feel it was appropriate to say that. I did not want to push and believe it or not... until this week I was happy just seeing him as and when and taking things slowly. As we both have kids I did not want either of us to rush into anything as it is not just us who would get hurt.

Granted I would have liked to have seen more of him but I appreciate that the distance, his job and my work and home committments make it difficult.

We tried to make arrangements for early last week but they did not go to plan as he was not getting back til late, I had to leave early for a school committment and events conspired against us!

To be honest, other people saying have you heard from him, when are you seeing him again, what is happening with you two was the catalyst for my hysterical behaviour.

hellisempty..I think I understand.

Is it that you are picking him as the one you want to be serious with,forgetting that although he is interested in you,he isn't picking you to get more serious with[for his own reasons such as not being ready to or liking/needing another type of partner better]

Some people would have dropped this guy already,on the grounds of not enough interest shown,but you are continuing with it in the hope it may turn out ok in the end.

If or when that doesn't happen,you feel that the special one you wanted didn't want you,but that is not really the case,it's just that what you need is not the same as what he needs.

I think tell him honestly you feel a lot for him and does he feel the same,if not,shall it end before you get more hurt.If he says yes he does,fine take it further but since you feel so strongly about him it will be hard to keep your feelings in check to match his.

It's hard,but it is the same for everyone,it's not you that is at fault in any way.

good luckx

ok fair enough.

i've said my piece.

enjoy the ride, and try and protect yourself.

OK, lets try another tack here as you don't seem to want to hear the He's Just Not That Into You - You are going to get badly burned - message coming through from pretty much every response.

You say you can handle the blatant one-sidedness of things (him wanting easy sex, you believing the fact you once met his son means that truly deep down he does love you) and think it's worth hanging on in there for more pain longer term rather than ripping the plaster off now. (NB: I think this is untrue and masochistic to say the least).

Regardless, if what you really want is a committed loving relationship, do you not see that ending this now and moving on will make you more likely to meet someone else who can offer this? I'm not pretending there are 1000s of perfect men out there, but you are a lot less likely to meet anyone new whilst you're expending so much time and emotional energy obsessing over this.

Personally I think you are coming across as needy and frankly a bit desparate here and need to get out there and get on with your own life on your own being happy with yourself before you're ready to share it with anyone else. But maybe this approach will help you step away from this unhealthy situation, which would be a start.

Actually, Warthog is right - you are not being very fair to this man. Because if you hang on in there hoping he wil 'love' you despite the fact that he doesn't and has said he has no intention of doing so, after a while you will start to get angry with him for not loving you, pick rows, issue ultimatums etc, when he hasn't actually done anything wrong. Except not love you.
The thing is, no matter how much you 'fall in love' with someone, you are not entitled to have them love you back.

thank you for all of your messages. I wish I could say they don't make sense and I wish I could say that a lot of it is not on the money accurate but I can't.

I think I will take some time to consider what you have said and decide what to do. He has his lad this weekend as usual so I will not hear from him until the beginning of next week. I will take that time to try and summarise what is important to me rather than what I want to happen here in an ideal world and what I would need from him to be happy, basically my acceptable tolerance.

Then the only thing to do is act on it - be it walk away or stay - and accept the consequences of my actions knowing full well that I could be hurting myself more.

I am at the dithering stage at the moment. I was at the - I want all of your replies to tell me that there is nothing wrong with sticking it out and he could turn around and be my prince eventually - to now thinking I am chasing rainbows.

I do want this man very much and I can see myself continuing with the casual in the hope of more scenario.... but I am starting to realise that just because I want something does not mean it is good for me or that I should have it!

I really want to stuff a whole bar of Cadbury's whole nut chocolate and I would enjoy it at the time but feel very sick afterwards and then have to suffer the consequences when I get on the scales. I think this man could be my whole nut chocolate. I want it but it is not necessarily good for me and abstaining now is less hassle and torture than having to exercise like a demon to put it right!