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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

How do you know when you should just give up on trying to save your marriage and just walk away?

158 replies

teaandcakeplease · 17/02/2010 10:30

Sorry this is fairly long.

My husband and I separated in October, after I discovered that he'd lied to me in a rather elaborate and horrible deception. He told me he was going away on a Christian Retreat for a week. He said he really needed to go. He even showed me the website. He then, a week before he went away, said he'd bumped into someone he used to work with, who had become a Christian and had chartered a private flight to the nearest airport for the retreat as he had arranged a big trip for a group of people from his church, and that he was now going to fly to Wales for the retreat (I suppose I'm very guillible as I always wanted to believe the best in him and didn't question this). His parents gave him the £300 for the retreat, they transferred it into my account and I withdrew the money for him (they did this, as he's not very good with money). Before he left, a few times I noticed him on his laptop looking at hotels from a distance. As he works on the dining table, which is in the lounge, if he is at home, We live in a small 2 bed flat so there's not much scope for him to work easily at home. Anyway, I asked why he was looking at hotels and he told me that a friend from years ago was coming over and wanted DH to help find him a hotel. I suppose looking back I should have realised it was all a pile of codswallop. Anyway he promised he'd call me everyday whilst away, needless to say I didn't hear from him for 24 hours, then I get a stressed phone call from a call box and he said he'd had to borrow a land rover from the retreat and had had to drive all over the place to find a phone box to call me as he didn't get any reception there and he wouldn't be able to call me at all whilst away. I heard a dog barking in the background and some voices. I said to him what's going on in the background, he suddenly made excuses and hung up. Half way through the week, I decided to call and leave a message on the answerphone, not entirely sure why looking back, but there was something I wanted to talk to him about. I dialled the number and got an international ring tone! With a sinking feeling I realised he was lying to me about being in Wales. He hung up as fast as he could and sent me to answerphone, but it was too late. He then sent me a text full of bullsh*t excuses on why I got an international ring tone. I replied to his text and said you're lying (not very politely) he then said no no the truth is I diverted my phone to a friend for a week who lives abroad, as I couldn't get reception. I replied again and said you're lying. He then said no no the truth is blah blah, the texts went back and forth until I told him I'd ring the retreat and check if he was staying there. Needless to say he went quiet at that point. I did ring the retreat as even though he only showed me the website very quickly before going away, I happened to remember the name and therefore looked up the number. I was fortunate enough that despite data protection, the lady at the other end after checking with her manager agreed to tell me, and that my DH had not stayed there at all.

I actually rang DH dad after this, as I was in shock. I asked him where my hubby had told him he was going. He said the same place as me. I burst into tears and said he's not there. Bizarrely enough his dad came to see me and offered to let me come and stay with him. I think he was just very cross and disappointed with his son and he also loves his grandchildren. On DH arrival back in the UK at an airport his dad and brother decided to go and meet him and get the truth out of him. He kept lying and lying with more elaborate stories every minute, until his brother forced him to produce his ticket. He'd been in Greece all week.

I was hurt he'd lied to me. I was also hurt as I hadn't had a decent holiday all year as we have no money. All I'd had was 3 days in Llanelli and my hubby had had to go back to work for some of that and leave me down in Wales. I was also upset as our daughter was in tears when I dropped him off for the holiday and crying "daddy gone, daddy lost" and I'd said to her it's ok he'll be back in a week, he's just going away somewhere to help him relax etc. So he not only duped me but his beautiful 2 year old daughter. We also have a son who was only 9 months at the time but he's a mummy's boy and doesn't mind where daddy is. My daughter has been exhibiting troubling behaviour in the last year, probably with daddy coming and going for days every week and her just not understanding why and feeling unsettled and then of course when he was there, the tension and sometimes open conflict between her parents, as I was struggling so much with being left on my own all the time.

The thing is we've been separated ever since this incident but he still can't be straight with me on who he went with. We had had an altercation back in September and he'd said he'd had an affair but it was over. He did lie about who the affair was with and when at this point. He also made up a hugely elaborate story on where he had been going weekly for 2 nights for months and months. He started disappearing for two-four nights weekly or fortnightly from February when our son was only 4 weeks old and suffering with horrendous colic, so at that point I was dealing with a jealous 18 month old daughter and a very unhappy baby on my own. I have spent the last year on my own with our two kids 99.99% of the time but my husband always seemed to have a good reason and I always believed him. I have 4 brothers all who are married happily. My parents have been married for over 40 years and are still happy. I have a lovely big family, I love my children and wanted them to grow up in a stable loving home with both parents. I desperately want to work things out. My husband is now having counselling but he cannot tell me when he will move back in, he cannot cope with looking after the kids on his own, never has been able to. I always had to take one with me. Our wedding anniversary in December he missed as he wanted to stay with a friend, New Years he claimed he was working for Blue Arrow and staying with a friend called "Jack" and now Valentines day he is away as well with "Jack" and working with Blue Arrow. This Jack only appeared in November once all his lies were found out. He goes to stay with him once a week or fortnight for several days and I keep asking for proof he exists, proof the affair is over and proof he worked for blue arrow, as truthfully I think he is still carrying the affair on and it's not over. Except he never provides proof but keeps insisting the affair is over.

I feel like I've morphed from a relaxed trusting person, into a paranoid maniac.

I've sent him a long e-mail over the weekend basically saying I cannot go on like this, and I need evidence the affair is over whether he shows me texts, e-mails or calls her whilst I listen in. As every time he goes to see "Jack" all I think is, is he with her? Whenever he goes away I dream about them, all the fear, rage and panic comes back and all the memories of the lies he has told etc. But even though I'd told him I need reassurance that the affair is over, he will not provide it. He seems to just think I'm having a moment and will cool down again. I think he thinks I will always be here waiting for him until he gets his head straight.

What would you do? Please be gentle with me...

OP posts:
Cadelaide · 17/02/2010 10:44

I would split for good, I'm sure about that. Just too, too many lies. I think someone capable of lying to that extent just isn't going to change. Also, your life at the moment isn't very enjoyable is it? All that wondering where he is? That's no fun at all, you and your children deserve better, I'm sure.

I'm sorry

Cadelaide · 17/02/2010 10:45

This thread may not go anywhere as your OP is so very, very long. Maybe have another go and shorten it just to get the thread going, then fill in as you go along?

Good Luck, with everything

ivent · 17/02/2010 10:50

But I read it all ..

I'm so sorry. It seems that as long as your DH is not going to make the effort, that it is already over.

I'm so sorry. It's probably not news you want to hear. And easier said than done, but pick yourself up and move on with your DCs. Seems like it'll be the same as before, as like you said, he was never capable of looking after them in the first place and haven't spent much time with them.

Like the other post said, you deserve better .. and so do your DCs.

teaandcakeplease · 17/02/2010 10:50

I actually shortened the story. I didn't go into all the lies he told to cover the affair or what they were/are.

Depending on what happens, I'll take your advice and try again.

I guess I just want to hear from people who do not know him or me or us as a couple and what they think. As I think I'd trust their advice more.

Thanks for your thoughts.

OP posts:
Ladyscratt · 17/02/2010 10:54

That is a major lie and the adultery, OMG i can't even believe that you are actually seeking advice here.

Leave and end it now!

Miggsie · 17/02/2010 10:56

You are not paranoid, you have been badly let down by someone you thought you could trust.

It sounds like he is having affairs, avoiding telling you or his family and then lying constantly.

I don't think there is much future for the two of you together, he sounds completely untrustworthy, and his inability to look after the children suggests he cannot handle responsibility, he runs away, then lies. This indicates a weak character and you deserve better.

If you got back together something would happen every few years like this by the sound of it.
If he left you for someone else he would do the same to her.

You are better off out of it.

I suspect he is such a weak character that he is waiting for you to make a decision then he can say it was all your fault.
He won't do anything hoping you will do something...basically you will have to throw him out and start divorce proceedings or live in limbo land with him trying to string you along while he has an affair.

WhenwillIfeelnormal · 17/02/2010 10:59

Teaandcake - it is possible to recover from an affair, but IMO there is far more going on here than just that.

This man just seems to lie about everything - and is still lying and withholding information.

Relate would be hopeless because he is still keeping secrets.

If he'd become a (relatively) open book after discovery, there might have been hope - but he didn't. And he still doesn't get it.

In answer to the question you posed in your thread title, I suspect that point would have been reached by me a long time ago. It must hurt like hell, given your stable family background, but this is his failure not yours.

GypsyMoth · 17/02/2010 11:02

Well he's not going to change is he, so unless you want a lifetime of this then I would leave. Keep your self respect and take some help from his family

teaandcakeplease · 17/02/2010 11:27

Thank you for your thoughts and honesty. I think you're right it's time to book an appointment with a solicitor...

OP posts:
baublesbanglesandbeads · 17/02/2010 11:28

christ hasnt she got enough to contend with, without having to re-write the OP just because some poeple cant be bothered to read???

YouKnowNothingoftheCrunch · 17/02/2010 11:29

TeaandCake.

Let me see if I've got this right.

He had an affair and lied about it.

You have repeatedly asked him to prove he is trustworthy but he hasn't provided anything or done anything to make you feel safer.

He WON'T (note I say won't and not can't, he is physically able, he just doesn't want to) have the DCs on his own.

You have done 99.99% of all the childcare.

You are chasing him constantly to try to "fix" things, but he's not contributing to the process.

Is that all right?

You are right that you can't go on like this. It's fine for him (no pressure, can do what he wants, doesn't even have to look after his own children), but it's hell for you.

He has no reason to change. You do. Move on. You will be ok.

He has failed and you have tried everything to mend things, but without him trying too there is no chance that this will work.

I'm so sorry. But you are already doing all the work of a single parent. Imagine how much more energy you'll have without having to worry about what he's doing 24 hours a day!

Please leave him.

teaandcakeplease · 17/02/2010 11:43

youknownothingofthecrunch you're right. I have been thinking along these lines for a while. I just wanted to give him a chance to come clean and get himself together. The affair took a long time to heat up, as it was a friendship that progressed over many years into a full fledged love affair, so I knew it would take time to cool down. All I've ever asked for is honesty. I said many times if you're still having the affair, just be honest and I'll move on with my life. But he either doesn't answer or denies it.

The truth is he wants both of us, isn't it? Well he can't have his cake and eat it...

OP posts:
teaandcakeplease · 17/02/2010 11:47

I guess the other thing is I never wanted to look back and regret not having done enough to save the marriage and regret it. When my 2 children were older (probably teenagers) and asked me why it ended, I wanted to be able to say I'd done everything I could. As I value marriage and think it is a commitment for life and not to be taken lightly. Sorry I'm old fashioned

I've booked to see a solicitor today now. They cannot see me until 5th March.

Thank you ladies for telling me the truth.

OP posts:
YouKnowNothingoftheCrunch · 17/02/2010 11:52

You'll have to change your name to teaandIT'S-MY-CAKE-NOT-YOURS

I can completely empathise with wanting to have tried everything. And you have. I feel the same about marriage, and asked my H to move out 2 weeks ago. (Different situation, but similar lack of effort to mend things by him)

I know that I have tried everything and that he hasn't. I want it to work (even now) but I'm not going to let it drain me anymore.

Sorry for talking about me, but I wanted you to know your feelings are normal

You'll be ok. It doesn't sound like you've lost a winner there!

teaandcakeplease · 17/02/2010 11:57

It's funny isn't it the first time you think about divorce when your marriage is in a shambles and you're trying so hard to fix it, you think "no I can't cope on my own, I can't do this".
The second time they do something outrageous when it's already a mess, you think "I don't think I can manage on my own as a single mum".
And the third time you think "No I've had enough, I can do this".

Or something similar. I cried a bit when I read the posts on here Pathetic really aren't I? But it reaffirmed what I was starting to realise rapidly...

OP posts:
sayithowitis · 17/02/2010 12:00

Don't be sorry for being 'old fashioned'. What you are really saying is that you take your wedding vows seriously. You know, for better, for worse etc. But, and it's a big but, your husband clearly does not take them seriously. Unless of course you had the vows specially re-written to exclude the bit about forsaking all others and being faithful only to you. And afaiac, faithful refers not only to not having affairs, it also means being truthful with you. He has clearly failed in both ares. Not only had he had at least one affair, which incidentally, from what you sat, I think is still going on,but he has lied to you and his family about it for months now.

So, if it were me, I would have reached the point of no return when I found out about the affair. You have very commendably, tried to get things back on track. He has not. He is sending you a message here.

I am so sorry that you are going through this, but you sound strong enough that you will come through the other side.

Ladyscratt · 17/02/2010 12:04

He goes to church does he?? what was it the bible said "thou shalt not commit adultery"

SolidGoldBrass · 17/02/2010 12:04

Sorry but there is no way you can repair your rleatinship with this man because he DOESN'T WANT TO BE WITH YOU. Trying to patch things up when they can't be patched up will make you utterly miserable and it's pointless anyway. He is not trustworthy. He is not kind. He doesn't care about you. Once you have accepted this, you can rebuild your life and the DC's life. At least it sounds like the grandparents want to stay in the DC's life, which is a good thing (please don't punish them for his selfishness and cowardice, it sounds as though they are blameless and it would be better for the DC to stay in touch with their father's family even if he is totally unreliable).

YouKnowNothingoftheCrunch · 17/02/2010 12:08

Don't feel bad about crying. It's one thing to think these things, it's another to have them confirmed. No matter how much you think you know what will be posted, you still want there to be a magical suggestion that will fix things.

It does sound like his family are thinking of you and the DCs too, which will help.

You will be fine. You really will.

This is not your fault.

prettywhiteguitar · 17/02/2010 12:24

just wanted to say I really feel for you in terms of keeping your family together, I came from a strong family background and I really struggled with just how easily my xp gave up on us.

The fact is that he doesn't have the same moral core as you, you will find someone who will share that so don't compromise with putting up with your h's immoral behaviour.

btw I read your whole thread and it wasn't that long that I struggled to read it, it's also easier to get a whole picture with a long thread so you can say the right thing.

Meet with a solicitor and also gather your friends, church, support network, family around you as it is really what helps through this horrible time x

Zooropa · 17/02/2010 12:51

I am really sorry teaandcakeplease
I understand where you are coming from with desperately wanting to make it work, but the only way I would give it another shot is an ultimatum that these trips stop, ok if it's work he needs to look for another job, wither that or brings you all with him or something to prove that he is there. I am pretty certain you're right though and he is still having the affair.
If he won't do this then I would say it's over I am so sorry.

Malificence · 17/02/2010 12:52

He sounds like a pathological lier and fantasist to boot.
He could even have another family out there if he's capable of such extreme deception.

I'd be hiring a PI about now, otherwise you
are never going to know the truth, and it's the not knowing that does long term emotional and psychological damage.

Cadelaide · 17/02/2010 12:56

baubles Regarding the long OP, at the time I wrote that no-one else had responded and I was trying to help.

ivent · 17/02/2010 12:57

He should be outed at church too!!! He's really awful for using church as part of his lies. It's so calculated as he's using it as double shield ... you know, all the more you won't suspect because he's going to some Christian Retreat.

PeachyPeachyEverPreachy · 17/02/2010 12:59

I am a great beleiver in the value of mariage and working to get something good,even if it takes someeffort.

So ,dump this loser and find someone worth the effort.

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