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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

How do you know when you should just give up on trying to save your marriage and just walk away?

158 replies

teaandcakeplease · 17/02/2010 10:30

Sorry this is fairly long.

My husband and I separated in October, after I discovered that he'd lied to me in a rather elaborate and horrible deception. He told me he was going away on a Christian Retreat for a week. He said he really needed to go. He even showed me the website. He then, a week before he went away, said he'd bumped into someone he used to work with, who had become a Christian and had chartered a private flight to the nearest airport for the retreat as he had arranged a big trip for a group of people from his church, and that he was now going to fly to Wales for the retreat (I suppose I'm very guillible as I always wanted to believe the best in him and didn't question this). His parents gave him the £300 for the retreat, they transferred it into my account and I withdrew the money for him (they did this, as he's not very good with money). Before he left, a few times I noticed him on his laptop looking at hotels from a distance. As he works on the dining table, which is in the lounge, if he is at home, We live in a small 2 bed flat so there's not much scope for him to work easily at home. Anyway, I asked why he was looking at hotels and he told me that a friend from years ago was coming over and wanted DH to help find him a hotel. I suppose looking back I should have realised it was all a pile of codswallop. Anyway he promised he'd call me everyday whilst away, needless to say I didn't hear from him for 24 hours, then I get a stressed phone call from a call box and he said he'd had to borrow a land rover from the retreat and had had to drive all over the place to find a phone box to call me as he didn't get any reception there and he wouldn't be able to call me at all whilst away. I heard a dog barking in the background and some voices. I said to him what's going on in the background, he suddenly made excuses and hung up. Half way through the week, I decided to call and leave a message on the answerphone, not entirely sure why looking back, but there was something I wanted to talk to him about. I dialled the number and got an international ring tone! With a sinking feeling I realised he was lying to me about being in Wales. He hung up as fast as he could and sent me to answerphone, but it was too late. He then sent me a text full of bullsh*t excuses on why I got an international ring tone. I replied to his text and said you're lying (not very politely) he then said no no the truth is I diverted my phone to a friend for a week who lives abroad, as I couldn't get reception. I replied again and said you're lying. He then said no no the truth is blah blah, the texts went back and forth until I told him I'd ring the retreat and check if he was staying there. Needless to say he went quiet at that point. I did ring the retreat as even though he only showed me the website very quickly before going away, I happened to remember the name and therefore looked up the number. I was fortunate enough that despite data protection, the lady at the other end after checking with her manager agreed to tell me, and that my DH had not stayed there at all.

I actually rang DH dad after this, as I was in shock. I asked him where my hubby had told him he was going. He said the same place as me. I burst into tears and said he's not there. Bizarrely enough his dad came to see me and offered to let me come and stay with him. I think he was just very cross and disappointed with his son and he also loves his grandchildren. On DH arrival back in the UK at an airport his dad and brother decided to go and meet him and get the truth out of him. He kept lying and lying with more elaborate stories every minute, until his brother forced him to produce his ticket. He'd been in Greece all week.

I was hurt he'd lied to me. I was also hurt as I hadn't had a decent holiday all year as we have no money. All I'd had was 3 days in Llanelli and my hubby had had to go back to work for some of that and leave me down in Wales. I was also upset as our daughter was in tears when I dropped him off for the holiday and crying "daddy gone, daddy lost" and I'd said to her it's ok he'll be back in a week, he's just going away somewhere to help him relax etc. So he not only duped me but his beautiful 2 year old daughter. We also have a son who was only 9 months at the time but he's a mummy's boy and doesn't mind where daddy is. My daughter has been exhibiting troubling behaviour in the last year, probably with daddy coming and going for days every week and her just not understanding why and feeling unsettled and then of course when he was there, the tension and sometimes open conflict between her parents, as I was struggling so much with being left on my own all the time.

The thing is we've been separated ever since this incident but he still can't be straight with me on who he went with. We had had an altercation back in September and he'd said he'd had an affair but it was over. He did lie about who the affair was with and when at this point. He also made up a hugely elaborate story on where he had been going weekly for 2 nights for months and months. He started disappearing for two-four nights weekly or fortnightly from February when our son was only 4 weeks old and suffering with horrendous colic, so at that point I was dealing with a jealous 18 month old daughter and a very unhappy baby on my own. I have spent the last year on my own with our two kids 99.99% of the time but my husband always seemed to have a good reason and I always believed him. I have 4 brothers all who are married happily. My parents have been married for over 40 years and are still happy. I have a lovely big family, I love my children and wanted them to grow up in a stable loving home with both parents. I desperately want to work things out. My husband is now having counselling but he cannot tell me when he will move back in, he cannot cope with looking after the kids on his own, never has been able to. I always had to take one with me. Our wedding anniversary in December he missed as he wanted to stay with a friend, New Years he claimed he was working for Blue Arrow and staying with a friend called "Jack" and now Valentines day he is away as well with "Jack" and working with Blue Arrow. This Jack only appeared in November once all his lies were found out. He goes to stay with him once a week or fortnight for several days and I keep asking for proof he exists, proof the affair is over and proof he worked for blue arrow, as truthfully I think he is still carrying the affair on and it's not over. Except he never provides proof but keeps insisting the affair is over.

I feel like I've morphed from a relaxed trusting person, into a paranoid maniac.

I've sent him a long e-mail over the weekend basically saying I cannot go on like this, and I need evidence the affair is over whether he shows me texts, e-mails or calls her whilst I listen in. As every time he goes to see "Jack" all I think is, is he with her? Whenever he goes away I dream about them, all the fear, rage and panic comes back and all the memories of the lies he has told etc. But even though I'd told him I need reassurance that the affair is over, he will not provide it. He seems to just think I'm having a moment and will cool down again. I think he thinks I will always be here waiting for him until he gets his head straight.

What would you do? Please be gentle with me...

OP posts:
SolidGoldBrass · 18/02/2010 01:39

WHizzywig, sorry but what a crock of shit you are peddling. No woman should be told to put her 'marriage' before her own wellbeing. ANd the only way this OP could 'save' her marriage would be to just put up with being treated like a service appliance.
Single parenthood is far better than being used like this, end of.

tortoiseonthehalfshell · 18/02/2010 01:58

Oh, OP, kick him out. He spent your wedding anniversary and Valentine's Day with another woman, who is apparently called Jack. He spends half his time away from you with this other woman. I mean, come on, he's not even trying to hide the fact that he's still seeing her. Calling her 'Jack' is hardly a cunning disguise.

He left you with two tiny children and went to Greece with another woman, and lied about it. He racks up huge debt and lies about it. He lost his job because he was sneaking off to shag a 21 year old rather than actually do his work. He has such a bad temper that you don't dare leave your children with him.

You're only, what, 26? You cannot go on like this. There's a whole life out there, waiting for you and your sweet children, that doesn't involve all this deceit and lies and unhappiness.

Leave him.

hobbgoblin · 18/02/2010 02:29

Maybe this Jack is a man and that's why he won't prove anything about anything because that would expose an even bigger thing.?

teaandcakeplease · 18/02/2010 08:47

No I'm 31, married a younger man, cradle snatcher

Funnily enough my mum has many times wondered since this shenanigans begun if he was indeed gay and that was why he's so secretive. I have asked him but he was outraged...

OP posts:
teaandcakeplease · 18/02/2010 09:25

My hubby has contacted me and finally conceded to show me a photo of Jack from his birthday at the beginning of Feb. Maybe I'm being paranoid but that's not enough is it? He could see him only once in a blue moon and use him as a cover for every other time he goes to see the OW?

How paranoid am I?

OP posts:
devastatedbuthopeful · 18/02/2010 10:16

No you are not paranoid, I thought my husbands 'friend' was called "Gym!!!"

AnyFucker · 18/02/2010 10:40

you are not paranoid

he was "outraged" you say when you suggested he may have an interest in men...

actually, I don't think this is the case

he is a liar, and a user and will ruin you all

that is all you need to know

Whizzywigg · 18/02/2010 10:50

SGB - there's no need to be so rude. I explicitly said that a marriage isn't worth your sanity and well-being. I just think this knee-jerk, "he's a b**d hen, dump him" is a bit OTT, especially when the OP has told us there are babies involved, and she is not completely decided about how to proceed.

Teaandcakes - obviously ignore anything I suggest that seems daft - you're living it, and it's easy to off-kilter when you're advising someone on an internet board.

Obviously don't leave the children with him if you don't feel they will be safe - it's terrible you feel like that.

Must be being dim, but is there any relationship betwen you at the moment. You stopped living togehter in Oct - what contact do you have with him? He's refused counselling - he can't have the children alone... Do you spend time together as a family? Do you spend time as a couple?

My hesitation around the divorce stuff is that sometimes think of divorce as a decision... the thing about divorce is it's just a process, that formalises arrangements for the children and sorts out finances. It actually goes smoothest, I think, if the emotion is out of it - I don't mean it's not an emotional process in itself - it is... but it's not a good way of working through your emotions if that makes sense....

In particular, divorce lawyers make expensive counsellors!

cestlavielife · 18/02/2010 11:06

i am still a little confused - you separated and waiting for him to "move back in" - so who is living where?

does he now live in same house as you (except when he off with "jack"?

or does he come every day to see the children? what are the arangements? who lives where?

the counselling and prozac - sure it does sound like he needs help - but you dont need to be looking after him when he cannot commit to you and children.

FabIsGoingToBeFabIn2010 · 18/02/2010 13:50

If he is cheating does it really matter if it is with a man or a woman?

You stay as things are, you leave or you tell him he has to change and work hard to fix things. They are your choices. Your life, your choices.

Crownjules1 · 18/02/2010 13:54

Dear teaandcake please, it's lovely that you have so much support here. I know it may not have provided the answers that you wanted, but clearly you must had had enough, or you would not have written your post in the first place.

I don't know what your financial situation is like, but given that he said his parent's gave him the money for his mythical trip, you don't have it to spare for PI's . Also I fail to see how more hurt will make you feel any better.

Your DH doesn't know a good thing when he's got one, but I like to think that there are some good ones out there. Obviously that's the last thing on your mind at the mo, but things will get better. You've got to decide now what your end game is. You tried hard at your marriage, and you didn't break your vows, but you must think about the children and the effect this situation might be having on them, so I'm with the majority here, ditch him, for the children's sake if not for your own.

xxx

teaandcakeplease · 18/02/2010 16:01

Crownjules1 - No I cannot afford a PI. Now on income support.

Whizzywigg - He didn't refuse counselling. The person who was supposed to give us marriage counseling, recommended that we wait until Neil is more stable in himself before we commence that. So instead he is having private 1 to 1 counselling right now.

Cestlavielife - He lives with his Dad.

OP posts:
Crownjules1 · 18/02/2010 18:13

Dear teandcakeplease, I think you are like myself, a very strong person and you will get through this just keep believing in yourself, as we all do and you will make the right decision.

teaandcakeplease · 08/03/2010 14:56

I don't know if anyone is still checking this or whether I should start a new thread but after my hubby discovered that I'd booked a solicitors appointment he came clean and admitted the affair had never ended. He says he loves me in his own way, but is "in love with her". He says he can't choose between us and can't face letting her go. However he agreed to take a break from seeing her, so he can finally make a decision on whether to work on the marriage or leave me and be with her.

He says he's spent the last 4 months trying to decide between us whilst still seeing her. So he'd have a lovely few days with us and would probably think "no I want to save my marriage" and then go and see her again and then think "no, no I can't leave her" so he's spent months chasing his tail and not being able to think rationally or clearly in my opinion.

I did see the solictor, more to know where I stand if he does choose her but I don't want to make the decision for him. As he has run away for this long, from making it and I want him to decide, not me for him.

Does that make sense? You probably all think I'm mad don't you?

My daughter still misses him and says "daddy gone, daddy lost" and I care about him so much but I am also angry at him too. It's confusing...

OP posts:
angemorange · 08/03/2010 15:22

I've just read your thread today and feel really sad for you! You've coped with a terrible betrayal from a very confused man for a long time, while looking after two small children virtually alone.
What do YOU want? If you think you would like him to return I'd give him a limited time period to do so; if he hasn't 'made up his mind' by then you probably need to take a decision about your own life.
If he does come back you'll have an awful lot of work to do.
You've shown yourself to be strong enough to tackle him and seek legal advice.
Painful though it is you're probably strong enough to cope alone if need be.
Wishing you luck and good wishes xx

teaandcakeplease · 08/03/2010 20:04

Thank you for your kind message. It's very difficult to think clearly with this much water under the bridge...

OP posts:
KatieScarlett2833 · 08/03/2010 21:19

I've just read this thread and am amazed at how forgiving you are after being treated so shabbily by the person who is meant to love you most. He is taking such advantage of your good nature, assuming you will always be there to return to when he sees fit. I feel outraged on your behalf that someone so decent should be encumbered with this lying, deceitful man-child, small children aside.

Yours is the type of story that should end in you walking off into the sunset with a decent, loving man who respects and loves you. It is what you deserve. Not this. I wish you everything that you deserve, peace, love and joy xxxx

mrsabbott · 08/03/2010 21:38

I haven't got any advice! but I just wanted to wish you luck. At least posting here could give you some perspective?

Doha · 08/03/2010 21:41

Agree with Katie

Why allow him to choose after how he has treated you and your DC's. If you hadn't booked the solicitors appointment you would still be none the wiser. He is a lying cheating twat. He has thought about no one but himself throughout.

You deserve better. He wants his cake and eat it.

Sorry but where is your self respect. Hold your head high and toss him out.

Then hotfoot it to get checked out at your local GUM clinic

teaandcakeplease · 09/03/2010 09:16

I want him to decide, as it's easy for me to do it for him. He has run away from this, like a coward and not faced up to even admitting his responsibility for this mess but always talking about my half of the struggles in our marriage.

If I do it for him, he can always say "well you left me" and ease his conscience etc. This time I want him to be the man and decide for once.

Does that make better sense?

OP posts:
Jux · 09/03/2010 09:51

Teaadncakeplease, you wouldn't be making hte decision for him, you would be making the decision for yourself and your children.

Your daughter won't settle until you settle. How long do you think he can stretch this out for?

As long as he's got a loophole, he'll avoid making the decision.

Will you be able to trust him again?

Rycie · 09/03/2010 10:41

Teaandcake - I have to ask, would he have come clean if you hadn't made a solicitor's appointment? Imagine that you hadn't, how much longer do you think he would have kept lying to you? Has anything really changed?

I know you want him to be a man and decide, but he's already told you that he's so in love with someone else that he can't give her up. Are you honestly going to accept this?

I had an ex who cheated on me, and towards the end I became so focussed on trying to salvage the relationship, I realised that I stopped asking myself whether I actually wanted to be with him.

I know its much harder because of the children, but seriously, if you had to describe the kind of partner and relationship and father to your kids you would like to have in your life - is he any of those qualities?

As my beloved father said to me at the time when I was ending my relationship - "lying is not what he does, its who he is."

Portofino · 09/03/2010 10:58

Sorry, I would say the time for him getting to "choose" between you and the OW is long past. I would kick his sorry arse to touch! He is a liar who is trying to have his cake and eat it.

HappyWoman · 09/03/2010 11:23

sorry but he will always find a way to 'blame' you.

I have a friend who left her cheating h and to this day - almost 30 years he is still very bitter - he married the ow too. It was all her fault because she couldnt get over it and have him back after the married failed .

Stop worrying about what he will think and tell people - you can hold your head high with the knowlege that you did everything you could.

Take care and you will feel better when you take control of your life and not let this excuse of a man control your emotions - although i know it is hard.

miumiu · 09/03/2010 11:32

As the last poster just said - you are offering him control of your life and those of your children.

Make YOUR decisions - based on both your heart and what you feel is best for you and the children. If you decide you are better off without him - then it is his responsibility to behave like a man and not a naughty child, and to assume what he has done. And to either get you back or accept with some dignity what YOU feel is best for YOU and the children he never considered in his wife/bit on the side equation.

Btw, post divorce, if he is to have any sort of meaningful relationship with his children, by default he will have to have both of them alone, without you nannying for him.

I divorced a cheating liar and I am v happy in a new marriage whilst my ex is skirt chasing still, despite an ongoing relationship. Leopards and spots.