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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

How do you know when you should just give up on trying to save your marriage and just walk away?

158 replies

teaandcakeplease · 17/02/2010 10:30

Sorry this is fairly long.

My husband and I separated in October, after I discovered that he'd lied to me in a rather elaborate and horrible deception. He told me he was going away on a Christian Retreat for a week. He said he really needed to go. He even showed me the website. He then, a week before he went away, said he'd bumped into someone he used to work with, who had become a Christian and had chartered a private flight to the nearest airport for the retreat as he had arranged a big trip for a group of people from his church, and that he was now going to fly to Wales for the retreat (I suppose I'm very guillible as I always wanted to believe the best in him and didn't question this). His parents gave him the £300 for the retreat, they transferred it into my account and I withdrew the money for him (they did this, as he's not very good with money). Before he left, a few times I noticed him on his laptop looking at hotels from a distance. As he works on the dining table, which is in the lounge, if he is at home, We live in a small 2 bed flat so there's not much scope for him to work easily at home. Anyway, I asked why he was looking at hotels and he told me that a friend from years ago was coming over and wanted DH to help find him a hotel. I suppose looking back I should have realised it was all a pile of codswallop. Anyway he promised he'd call me everyday whilst away, needless to say I didn't hear from him for 24 hours, then I get a stressed phone call from a call box and he said he'd had to borrow a land rover from the retreat and had had to drive all over the place to find a phone box to call me as he didn't get any reception there and he wouldn't be able to call me at all whilst away. I heard a dog barking in the background and some voices. I said to him what's going on in the background, he suddenly made excuses and hung up. Half way through the week, I decided to call and leave a message on the answerphone, not entirely sure why looking back, but there was something I wanted to talk to him about. I dialled the number and got an international ring tone! With a sinking feeling I realised he was lying to me about being in Wales. He hung up as fast as he could and sent me to answerphone, but it was too late. He then sent me a text full of bullsh*t excuses on why I got an international ring tone. I replied to his text and said you're lying (not very politely) he then said no no the truth is I diverted my phone to a friend for a week who lives abroad, as I couldn't get reception. I replied again and said you're lying. He then said no no the truth is blah blah, the texts went back and forth until I told him I'd ring the retreat and check if he was staying there. Needless to say he went quiet at that point. I did ring the retreat as even though he only showed me the website very quickly before going away, I happened to remember the name and therefore looked up the number. I was fortunate enough that despite data protection, the lady at the other end after checking with her manager agreed to tell me, and that my DH had not stayed there at all.

I actually rang DH dad after this, as I was in shock. I asked him where my hubby had told him he was going. He said the same place as me. I burst into tears and said he's not there. Bizarrely enough his dad came to see me and offered to let me come and stay with him. I think he was just very cross and disappointed with his son and he also loves his grandchildren. On DH arrival back in the UK at an airport his dad and brother decided to go and meet him and get the truth out of him. He kept lying and lying with more elaborate stories every minute, until his brother forced him to produce his ticket. He'd been in Greece all week.

I was hurt he'd lied to me. I was also hurt as I hadn't had a decent holiday all year as we have no money. All I'd had was 3 days in Llanelli and my hubby had had to go back to work for some of that and leave me down in Wales. I was also upset as our daughter was in tears when I dropped him off for the holiday and crying "daddy gone, daddy lost" and I'd said to her it's ok he'll be back in a week, he's just going away somewhere to help him relax etc. So he not only duped me but his beautiful 2 year old daughter. We also have a son who was only 9 months at the time but he's a mummy's boy and doesn't mind where daddy is. My daughter has been exhibiting troubling behaviour in the last year, probably with daddy coming and going for days every week and her just not understanding why and feeling unsettled and then of course when he was there, the tension and sometimes open conflict between her parents, as I was struggling so much with being left on my own all the time.

The thing is we've been separated ever since this incident but he still can't be straight with me on who he went with. We had had an altercation back in September and he'd said he'd had an affair but it was over. He did lie about who the affair was with and when at this point. He also made up a hugely elaborate story on where he had been going weekly for 2 nights for months and months. He started disappearing for two-four nights weekly or fortnightly from February when our son was only 4 weeks old and suffering with horrendous colic, so at that point I was dealing with a jealous 18 month old daughter and a very unhappy baby on my own. I have spent the last year on my own with our two kids 99.99% of the time but my husband always seemed to have a good reason and I always believed him. I have 4 brothers all who are married happily. My parents have been married for over 40 years and are still happy. I have a lovely big family, I love my children and wanted them to grow up in a stable loving home with both parents. I desperately want to work things out. My husband is now having counselling but he cannot tell me when he will move back in, he cannot cope with looking after the kids on his own, never has been able to. I always had to take one with me. Our wedding anniversary in December he missed as he wanted to stay with a friend, New Years he claimed he was working for Blue Arrow and staying with a friend called "Jack" and now Valentines day he is away as well with "Jack" and working with Blue Arrow. This Jack only appeared in November once all his lies were found out. He goes to stay with him once a week or fortnight for several days and I keep asking for proof he exists, proof the affair is over and proof he worked for blue arrow, as truthfully I think he is still carrying the affair on and it's not over. Except he never provides proof but keeps insisting the affair is over.

I feel like I've morphed from a relaxed trusting person, into a paranoid maniac.

I've sent him a long e-mail over the weekend basically saying I cannot go on like this, and I need evidence the affair is over whether he shows me texts, e-mails or calls her whilst I listen in. As every time he goes to see "Jack" all I think is, is he with her? Whenever he goes away I dream about them, all the fear, rage and panic comes back and all the memories of the lies he has told etc. But even though I'd told him I need reassurance that the affair is over, he will not provide it. He seems to just think I'm having a moment and will cool down again. I think he thinks I will always be here waiting for him until he gets his head straight.

What would you do? Please be gentle with me...

OP posts:
teaandcakeplease · 06/04/2010 22:08

It's not an excuse I just love them to bits and don't want them as adults to blame me or think that the divorce ruined their lives etc.

I think I try so hard to be the perfect parent, that I feel guilt at almost everything. My Dad was a difficult man and shouted/ beat me often. I think sometimes I'm so desperate to create the perfect home life for my DCs I find it hard when I fail or think I'm failing them?

Does that make sense?

Hoochey (love your name) thank you

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teaandcakeplease · 06/04/2010 22:08
  • hoochie
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AnyFucker · 06/04/2010 22:19

tea...you have not/are not failing your children

he is doing that

if you accept his treatment of you...then yes, you will fail to show them a good example of what a loving relationship should be like

show them something better...that no-one has to accept being second best

teaandcakeplease · 06/04/2010 22:23

AF - OK, it's just some of the stuff on the other thread made tears well up in my eyes, as I NEVER want my LO's to feel like that. I never wanted to get divorced but he's leaving me no choice

Going to bed in a mo, thank you for encouraging me, as full of doubt and blaming myself for things x

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AnyFucker · 06/04/2010 22:24

exactly...he has left you no choice

he should shoulder the blame...but he won't

no reason why you have to

IfYoureHappyAndYouKnowIt · 06/04/2010 22:34

You're doing really well Tea - keep your spirits up (and as they say chin up *)

wheresmypaddle · 06/04/2010 23:06

Tea I am one of the posters on the other thread who has possibly upset you as I said that my parents divorce was difficult to deal with. In retrospect, maybe I should have thought more carefully before I posted.

Please don't let that thread set you back, 'twas hard to deal with but there are some situations where it is wrong to stay together for the sake of the children and where the best thing for them is to end the relationship and move onwards towards happier times.

I know this must be terribly hard for you- good luck......

AbricotsSecs · 07/04/2010 01:26

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providentielle · 07/04/2010 02:03

teaandcakes, the best thing you can do for your daughter is be a good role model. If you stayed with him you would be giving your relationship as an example to her, teaching her that it is acceptable and she would possibly even see it as the norm as it is all she has ever known. Give her the gift of showing her you can be strong enough to fight for your happiness, teach her that she should love and be loved in return and that she doesn't need to put up with being unhappy or treated badly.

Take care, you are strong and you will get through it for you and your kids.

teaandcakeplease · 07/04/2010 07:46

I had trouble sleeping and spent of most of the night thinking about our whole marriage, the last year, what's been said etc. Probably my brain processing everything. Thanks Hoochie, Withoutapaddle, Happy for nice words.

I suspect my H will be relieved I've finally made the choice for him but its hard on me

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ChairmumMiaowGoingItAlone · 07/04/2010 07:53

tea - while things were rough and my H was still at home I was focussing a lot on trying to be the perfect parent. I worried about every little thing and whether it was right for DS.

When things fell apart with H I could barely function and ended up being a 'just about good enough' parent. But funnily enough DS didn't seem to mind.

Once the pressure with H was somewhat relieved I could take a step back and think and I have managed to ease off on the worry. I just try for general consistency with DS and a lot of cuddles - and he doesn't really seem to be affected by the split at the moment. I know he's young (just 2) but I realised that all that stressing was just untenable in the long term and so we're doing things in a more relaxed way - and I think my more relaxed attitude generally rubs off on him.

And FWIW my mother left my father 3 times, and each time I wished they hadn't got back together, because things were never good for long. My father always gave in to my mothers demands for a while and then went back to his old ways (workaholic) within a short time. It was a horrible stressful environment and I would have been better off if they had divorced. I am positive about that.

teaandcakeplease · 07/04/2010 17:05

I sent my H a long e-mail to explain that I'd begin divorce process. I'm not sure what I expected but he has come to see the kids today. Is happy, laughing with them, which is one way is good but in another way is upsetting.

I asked if he received me e-mail and he said "yes". I said are you relieved I've finally made the decision for you and he "yes, in a way I am". He is totally unbothered by the fact we're divorcing. He even asked me if I'd told my family yet to let everybody know

Why does his whole reaction hurt so much? Can anyone tell me why I keep wanting to cry?

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teaandcakeplease · 07/04/2010 17:05

Sorry there's a lot of typos, probably as the tears are blurring the computer screen.

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Mumfun · 07/04/2010 18:00

Tea

Tears are so natural - Im also told they help longer term as its good to let the feelings out.

Your H being unbothered by the divorce is so sad. You dont deserve it at all - but it shows youre making the right decision. He doesnt care enough about the kids and doesnt care enough about you.

Keep on going in the divorce. Several churches run Divorce care or Divorce support programmes - maybe an ldea to check if there are any in your area. Supposed to be really helpful and often free. There are also some secular ones but tend to cost.

Keep going - do kind things for yourself and little DD. Building small positive things for yourself helps in the long term.

teaandcakeplease · 07/04/2010 20:57

He said some stuff to me on leaving today after playing with the kids that made me so

Will he ever stop placing the blame squarely on my shoulders for all of this?

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AnyFucker · 07/04/2010 22:41

probably not, tea

but don't let that concern you now

let him think what the heck he likes...you will never get him to understand, so save your energy and stop trying

Mumfun · 08/04/2010 07:52

Tea my H has blamed me so much. Its much easier then blaming themselves. And they have shiny new totally lacking in integrity cow who tells them how great they are etc etc. So of course they cant be to blame!

And I hadnt known about a psychological thing called projection before - where they cant deal with stuff theyve thought or done and project it onto you. My H has laughably done this about some of his family problems. WIll try to find some links on blame. Several joint frineds were very kind to stress early on that I wasnt to blame - and I know I wasnt! (Im always very open to saying Im not perfect though)

Mumfun · 08/04/2010 07:59

This gives some sense of why you werent to blame:

divorcesupport.about.com/od/whypeoplecheat/f/blame_for_affair.htm

And I dont now hold with the view that relationship breakdown is due to actions of both spouses. One can just decide to blow everything up. My H did. Yes we were under stress with 2 small children and him having to work away from home. Those practical facyors meant that thre was distance and we didnt have time for each other as before. But he was very selfish, had a huge sense of entitlement and resented the kids taking over our lives at that moment in time (hard not to with a 1 and 3 year old) He chose to be a selfish selfish person and cheat

teaandcakeplease · 08/04/2010 21:15

Thanks mumfun. Been a day of tears and sitting in pj's until my DD demanded at 4.30pm that I take her to the park. It was lovely weather, the fresh air was good and she had a sausage and chips on the way home. What quality food I offer

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AbricotsSecs · 08/04/2010 22:30

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IfYoureHappyAndYouKnowIt · 08/04/2010 22:37

Hoochie said it all - park sounds good - I'd do that again tomorrow if I were you (surely better than the Fly )

AbricotsSecs · 10/04/2010 21:03

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CheekyVimtoGal · 10/04/2010 21:24

You cannot stay with someone because of the children. It would do more harm then good. Lets us know how your getting on?

strangeitude · 10/04/2010 22:03

when you find yourself asking that question

teaandcakeplease · 10/04/2010 23:17

Hello Hoochie!

I'm ok. Had a friend round tonight and was just checking mumsnet before bed.

I end up with tears welling up when I think about how things are or if someone asks how I am. I also have moments of getting very cross if my H does something that re-opens the hurt about him and OW right now. I feel great sadness about the situation and how he is making a big mistake and I know he will look back in 10 years and realise, when he grows up a bit. Unfortunately right now, he is so caught up in his obsession/ infatuation with the OW and his own selfishness and struggles generally, that he cannot see the bigger picture. He is so sure our marriage could never have been better, healed or restored with marriage counselling etc.

Spent lots of time talking to girlfriends reassuring me that it's not all my fault etc today. Like he tells me.

It's so hard. My DD still misses him terribly and gets very tearful. How do you explain it to a 2 year old in way that brings them peace? As if I word it wrong, she may think maybe daddy will stop loving me or something. I try to make sure she see's him regularly and does nice things such as swimming or the park though but it still hurts her, as she remembers when daddy was here everyday and she finds its so hard. Its heart breaking to see

How long do you think a divorce can take on average? I think on closure of that, that may bring me a lot peace, to close the door on that chapter of my life, well and truly.

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