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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

How do you know when you should just give up on trying to save your marriage and just walk away?

158 replies

teaandcakeplease · 17/02/2010 10:30

Sorry this is fairly long.

My husband and I separated in October, after I discovered that he'd lied to me in a rather elaborate and horrible deception. He told me he was going away on a Christian Retreat for a week. He said he really needed to go. He even showed me the website. He then, a week before he went away, said he'd bumped into someone he used to work with, who had become a Christian and had chartered a private flight to the nearest airport for the retreat as he had arranged a big trip for a group of people from his church, and that he was now going to fly to Wales for the retreat (I suppose I'm very guillible as I always wanted to believe the best in him and didn't question this). His parents gave him the £300 for the retreat, they transferred it into my account and I withdrew the money for him (they did this, as he's not very good with money). Before he left, a few times I noticed him on his laptop looking at hotels from a distance. As he works on the dining table, which is in the lounge, if he is at home, We live in a small 2 bed flat so there's not much scope for him to work easily at home. Anyway, I asked why he was looking at hotels and he told me that a friend from years ago was coming over and wanted DH to help find him a hotel. I suppose looking back I should have realised it was all a pile of codswallop. Anyway he promised he'd call me everyday whilst away, needless to say I didn't hear from him for 24 hours, then I get a stressed phone call from a call box and he said he'd had to borrow a land rover from the retreat and had had to drive all over the place to find a phone box to call me as he didn't get any reception there and he wouldn't be able to call me at all whilst away. I heard a dog barking in the background and some voices. I said to him what's going on in the background, he suddenly made excuses and hung up. Half way through the week, I decided to call and leave a message on the answerphone, not entirely sure why looking back, but there was something I wanted to talk to him about. I dialled the number and got an international ring tone! With a sinking feeling I realised he was lying to me about being in Wales. He hung up as fast as he could and sent me to answerphone, but it was too late. He then sent me a text full of bullsh*t excuses on why I got an international ring tone. I replied to his text and said you're lying (not very politely) he then said no no the truth is I diverted my phone to a friend for a week who lives abroad, as I couldn't get reception. I replied again and said you're lying. He then said no no the truth is blah blah, the texts went back and forth until I told him I'd ring the retreat and check if he was staying there. Needless to say he went quiet at that point. I did ring the retreat as even though he only showed me the website very quickly before going away, I happened to remember the name and therefore looked up the number. I was fortunate enough that despite data protection, the lady at the other end after checking with her manager agreed to tell me, and that my DH had not stayed there at all.

I actually rang DH dad after this, as I was in shock. I asked him where my hubby had told him he was going. He said the same place as me. I burst into tears and said he's not there. Bizarrely enough his dad came to see me and offered to let me come and stay with him. I think he was just very cross and disappointed with his son and he also loves his grandchildren. On DH arrival back in the UK at an airport his dad and brother decided to go and meet him and get the truth out of him. He kept lying and lying with more elaborate stories every minute, until his brother forced him to produce his ticket. He'd been in Greece all week.

I was hurt he'd lied to me. I was also hurt as I hadn't had a decent holiday all year as we have no money. All I'd had was 3 days in Llanelli and my hubby had had to go back to work for some of that and leave me down in Wales. I was also upset as our daughter was in tears when I dropped him off for the holiday and crying "daddy gone, daddy lost" and I'd said to her it's ok he'll be back in a week, he's just going away somewhere to help him relax etc. So he not only duped me but his beautiful 2 year old daughter. We also have a son who was only 9 months at the time but he's a mummy's boy and doesn't mind where daddy is. My daughter has been exhibiting troubling behaviour in the last year, probably with daddy coming and going for days every week and her just not understanding why and feeling unsettled and then of course when he was there, the tension and sometimes open conflict between her parents, as I was struggling so much with being left on my own all the time.

The thing is we've been separated ever since this incident but he still can't be straight with me on who he went with. We had had an altercation back in September and he'd said he'd had an affair but it was over. He did lie about who the affair was with and when at this point. He also made up a hugely elaborate story on where he had been going weekly for 2 nights for months and months. He started disappearing for two-four nights weekly or fortnightly from February when our son was only 4 weeks old and suffering with horrendous colic, so at that point I was dealing with a jealous 18 month old daughter and a very unhappy baby on my own. I have spent the last year on my own with our two kids 99.99% of the time but my husband always seemed to have a good reason and I always believed him. I have 4 brothers all who are married happily. My parents have been married for over 40 years and are still happy. I have a lovely big family, I love my children and wanted them to grow up in a stable loving home with both parents. I desperately want to work things out. My husband is now having counselling but he cannot tell me when he will move back in, he cannot cope with looking after the kids on his own, never has been able to. I always had to take one with me. Our wedding anniversary in December he missed as he wanted to stay with a friend, New Years he claimed he was working for Blue Arrow and staying with a friend called "Jack" and now Valentines day he is away as well with "Jack" and working with Blue Arrow. This Jack only appeared in November once all his lies were found out. He goes to stay with him once a week or fortnight for several days and I keep asking for proof he exists, proof the affair is over and proof he worked for blue arrow, as truthfully I think he is still carrying the affair on and it's not over. Except he never provides proof but keeps insisting the affair is over.

I feel like I've morphed from a relaxed trusting person, into a paranoid maniac.

I've sent him a long e-mail over the weekend basically saying I cannot go on like this, and I need evidence the affair is over whether he shows me texts, e-mails or calls her whilst I listen in. As every time he goes to see "Jack" all I think is, is he with her? Whenever he goes away I dream about them, all the fear, rage and panic comes back and all the memories of the lies he has told etc. But even though I'd told him I need reassurance that the affair is over, he will not provide it. He seems to just think I'm having a moment and will cool down again. I think he thinks I will always be here waiting for him until he gets his head straight.

What would you do? Please be gentle with me...

OP posts:
Cadelaide · 17/02/2010 12:59

Not pathetic teaandcake, not pathetic at all.

I think you sound very dignified and composed, actually. Nothing wrong with crying, anyone would.

Hawklore · 17/02/2010 13:16

So sorry teaandcake . Your cowardly weasel of a husband has taken an already difficult situation and made it infinitely worse with his lies and deception. I honestly can't see a way back from this and have to agree with the others who've said it's time to move on with your life.

You are NOT pathetic teaandcake. You sound like you've done everything you can to save what's left of your marriage. It's not like you gave up at the first hurdle. But how can you fight to save a relationship when you're the only one making any effort to do so? It takes two to make a relationship work, and sadly it seems your husband has already opted out.

Put yourself and the DCs first from now on and get rid of this sorry excuse for a man. Take care.

sungirltan · 17/02/2010 13:24

I'm so sorry. What a cad. I think you have your 12 points now for a divorce by unreasonable behaviour.

I don't think you can recover this marraige as the trust has been abused and destroyed - even if he cmae clean now and promised you the world could you trust him again?

In the meantime I think you are very strong x

devastatedbuthopeful · 17/02/2010 13:31

Teaandcake - In October I too found out my husband of 21 years had been having an affair for 3 years. I had absolutely no idea, everything was fine at home.
I gave him an ultimatum after 3 weeks because he was still at home, he had to choose her or me and our children. He chose her and moved in with her straight away.
I subsequently found out that he spent many nights away with her, they work together, he also took her on holiday to Spain for a week, veiled as a business trip.
I have spent the last 4 months trying to discover without fail what went wrong with our relationship, he cannot explain or give a reason, he claims he still loves me and wants to support me. But he has completely destroyed the trust that I had in him and do not believe what he says about supporting us.
This has been such a drain emotionally, I am having counselling, to help with the overwhelming sadness and anger.
But the biggest obstacle for me moving on is trying to find the reasons why? But I know this is so self destructive, but it haunts me, as does the wondering what he is doing with her.
So you are definitely not pathetic, nor alone in the feelings you are experiencing. The problem will be how to deal with them.
We are all different and cope in different ways, take advantage of your family and friends and their offers of help. Mine have been invaluable.

teaandcakeplease · 17/02/2010 15:00

I can't compete with his affair partner. She's young and single, so no saggy boobs from BF 2 kids, no C section scar and wobbly belly from 2 big babies and she has all the time in the world for him.

I had been jealous of how often they spoke for years and had told my hubby numerous times that I thought it was inappropriate to speak that often to a single female. I kept saying that she wasn't really a joint friend of ours and that it made me seriously uncomfortable how often she called or texted him. I got so jealous this last year it was crazy. Everytime I turned round it felt like, she was either texting him or arranging to go to the same Christian festivals as him or SU kids camps to help. I suppose I should have realised they must have been having an affair by then. But I didn't. In fact I felt so guilty at my behaviour, I apologised to her and invited her to our kids Christening in September . I never shouted at her or sent her rude texts, I just got very chilly with her when I saw her. Been a complete fool really...

Maybe some of my hesitation was the fact that I figured I would be alone for the rest of my life, struggling to make ends meet with 2 kids.

My hubby lost his job at the church last November, they made him redundant as they said they couldn't afford to keep him on. I think if he had actually been a good youth worker, they would've found the money to keep him on, but he wasn't doing a good job for them truthfully, as he was too busy sneaking off to see his lover whilst I was at home trying to take care of the kids

I do actually go to church as well, perhaps that's part of the reason for hesitating on the divorce but you ladies are right. I need to move on...

My hubby's Dad is great and was only over yesterday seeing the kids. They love him. But he's moving to Montrose in March to retire up there, which is totally rubbish as that's 8-9 hours drive from me. Not doable really on my own with 2 kids in a car. But he's always kind to me and struggles with the way his son is being...

OP posts:
AnyFucker · 17/02/2010 15:03

I just want to add my voice to the others

your marriage is over

it was over some time ago

you are already managing without him

the loss of his deception, lies and the paranoid feeling he engenders in you will be uplifting

be brave...see that solicitor and dissolve your marriage...it is not worth the paper it is written on

if you have any religious or moral feelings that a "marriage is for life", tell that to your low-life, adulterous, deceitful husband

nowhere in any religion does it say any person has to overlook this kind of treatment

and I would recommend you get yourself checked at the GUM clinic if you have slept with him at any time in the last couple of years

PotPourri · 17/02/2010 15:11

walk away. you've done more than enough. it hasn';t worked, gather your dignity and walk away now

Cadelaide · 17/02/2010 17:13

Anyfucker says it well, as ever.

Especially the uplifting bit. 'Tis true.

AnyFucker · 17/02/2010 17:43

the problem though, cad, is that you don't realise how downtrodden you are until you are free of it....

sad, but true

and then you could bloody kick yourself for putting your relationship before yourself and your kids for soooo long

teaandcakeplease · 17/02/2010 18:02

No the kids have always come first in my situation. That's the problem. He confesses he got/ gets jealous...

I have to say you're bit blunt for me anyfucker but I do agree with some of your stuff you've said, completely.

When I booked the appointment at the solicitor today, I suddenly felt free-er. Even though it's not until 5th March.

Thank you for your honesty though.

OP posts:
AnyFucker · 17/02/2010 18:15

I am not going to ask you which bit was too blunt, because you don't need to explain yourself to me

however, I am going to take back the bit about the kids...that came across wrong and I apologise

I tried to lump and I didn't mean to say you put him before your kids, I was generalising by that point but I can see how it may have been perceived

good luck with the solicitor, I promise your life will start to improve now...how could it not ?

FabIsGoingToBeFabIn2010 · 17/02/2010 18:27

Good luck with the solicitor.

You will be absolutely fine with your children without this waste of space taking up too much head space.

IfYoureHappyAndYouKnowIt · 17/02/2010 19:25

Good luck from me too - you have been having an awful time and I really think you will start to feel better if you can take control and make some plans for a better future.

I don't think anything you have to face now moving forward will feel as bad as what you have been living with.

teaandcakeplease · 17/02/2010 19:57

Thanks. I keep telling myself it's not about who looks thinnest etc often with an affair, but my self esteem has taken a such a knock and it was never great to begin with

OP posts:
Whizzywigg · 17/02/2010 21:20

I'm really sorry this is happening to you and your little ones.

I am probably wrong, and possibly an idiot, but I feel a little bit uneasy about all the responses suggesting you should divorce him immediately.

I wonder why he behaves as he does... if he just wanted to bugger off, why doesn't he? Why does he go to so much trouble to lie?

Maybe it is because he's an arse, and he wants you to dump him... Perhaps however you have a stronger hold than you think?

It sounds like he copes badly with having children. It is tough having 2 small kids. I do belive some people find it harder to cope with them than others. In no way am I letting him off, as I do think he has been a complete prick to leave you doing everything... but a little bit of me wonders if he is rushing off with his single friend because he is terrified of family life?

I agree with you about valuing marriage - I think it is special for children to grow up with both parents. This goal can't be at the expense of your sanity and well being though!

You have separated, but you don't say much about how the relationship is working at the moment? Do you see each other regularly? How is his contact with teh children?

Have you talked about plans for fixing things? Will he engage with ideas for making things better even if he won't provide proof the affair is over - like going to counselling? Is there anyone who can look after the children, so you two could go out?

If you feel this uncertain, I certainly would rachet it all up by initiating divorce proceedings. Can't see any negatives in leaving it 6 months, even if you tell him you have given up on him and dont' want to be together any more.

teaandcakeplease · 17/02/2010 21:43

We were referred to someone for marriage counseling but after speaking to my hubby they said there was no point in marriage counseling right now, as we'd both try really hard and it would all go wrong again in a year. Basically he said my hubby had a lot of issues and didn't really know who he was and issues from his childhood. The counselor believes that if he can work through these things with him first the marriage counseling will be successful. The things is though, I keep telling my hubby that I'm uncomfortable with him disappearing to see this Jack guy all the time, as he has only appeared on the scene since the affair was found out and no matter how many times I ask for proof he exists i.e. introduce me etc he doesn't/ won't.

He genuinely tries hard when seeing kids to be a "good" daddy but he truly cannot cope with looking after them on his own. His temper gets the better of him fairly quickly in the "witching hour" as I like to call it between 5pm and 6pm when all hell breaks loose usually with toddler tantrums etc. He ends up having to go for a walk to cool down. He refuses to look after both kids on his own so I can pop to shop etc. As already said I need to take one with me for him.

Does that help?

I should add though that he truly is a congenital liar and has racked up £7,000 on a credit card I had no idea existed and bought loads of things that were unnecessary in the last year. He now has to pay a minimum payment of £239 odd pounds a month. Each item when brought home, he had another story on how he acquired it and I believed them all.

He's a total mess, he says he's been lying since he was 15, so 11 years now.

I sometimes think about ringing his affair partner, but she's 21 years old and I suspect it wouldn't achieve anything...

OP posts:
AnyFucker · 17/02/2010 22:21

as good as it is to get both sides of a viewpoint, whizzy, do you seriously think this man deserves a chance to keep fucking about on his family ??

have you read the thread properly ?

not only is he a grade-A incontinent liar, is monumentally devious, appears to have no remorse and is shagging a 21yo, he is trying to pull them all into bankruptcy too

the mind boggles !

sorry teacake, more harsh words, but fgs, why is this even a question of you "working it out" ???

lionstigersandbearsohmy · 17/02/2010 22:26

Completely agree with AF. PLEASE leave this man, he is so damaging in so many ways. You and your beautiful babies deserve better. X

Whizzywigg · 17/02/2010 22:42

Oh, teaandcakes... I know it is very un-mn like, but I am sending you a virtual hug.

I'm confused - is this Jack his counsellor? Surely not - if he is disappearing off with him? I do sympathise... I have lived with a liar - though most of his lies would be non-malicious... like he would borrow money to buy xmas pressies and then swear blind he had won it on a horse...

As he is out of control, and you are being dumped on from a great height, I think you need to reassert control and stop being dumped on.

I know other thing that should involve divorcing him forth with, but I am not convinced that is what you want.

I feel you are a very important person who is holding the family together.

He is 26 and has 2 young kids - he needs a bloody big boot up the bum

I think you need to think about actions that reassert your important position as the mother of the family, and make him face his responsiblities as the father. I can't possibly say exactly how you do that, as I dont' really know the ins and outs... but off the top of my head...

(1) You need space for you and he needs to learn to cope - tell him he is looking after both children as you need to X,Y,Z - (see the doctor, get your legs waxed whatever...)and leave him with them ALL for at least 1 hour more than you think he could possibly cope for. Go to cinema - turn your phone off. No one will die... he will have to cope... about bloody time....

If it works out badly... do it again... he will get better... Maybe he will even feel better about himself....

(2) figure out what you want to improve your relationship... who gives a shit if his counsellor thinks he needs to sort his head first .... he's self-obssed wee gobshite... it's too late for that... marriage time or bust... Organise Relate or whatever - tell him if he odesn't want to go, you will be working on support for you to end the relationship...

(3) Call the OW and suggest coffee... better still, turn up on her doorstep.

You may find a lot of his behavioru around lying is about protecting her... don't let his protection be effective. If she wants to shag your DH whilst you care for your shared children, then she has to take the grown up responsiblity, 21 or not. Be calm and dignified, but expose her to the misery your children feel and the consequences of her actions... Be prepared that she may tell you that she is with him every night and she loves him. At least you will know where you stand.

Am so sorry you have this crap... it just feels like he is playing you like a violin... if you are going to stay, and it feels like you might, I think it is time to get more strategic.....

Anyway, those are just suggestions... I just want to add, you should feel as though it is all your call... his behaviour is very poor... if you feel you want to leave, I for one, wouldnt' think that was unreasonble in any way...

Whizzywigg · 17/02/2010 22:47

AF - I read it all...actually I re-read it when I got to the end. I do see what you are saying.

However, he is the father of teaandcakes two tiny children... I do think that counts for a lot. I am also bearing in mind that teanadcakes seems prepared to be very forgiving - more forgiving than I think I would be...

AnyFucker · 17/02/2010 22:48

Good Lord, whizzy, you are a better person than I, seriously

you give some good advice there, if the Op decides he is a keeper

which is, of course, her decision

I, however, suspect there is lots more to this, particularly on the financial side

good luck OP, I wish you that with all my heart x

Jux · 17/02/2010 22:50

Oh please leave him. He's dragging you down, and will continue to do that until you are well and truly separate. Who knows, he might improve to such an extent after that, that he becomes enough of a grown up to be worth having as a partner, but right now, he sure as hell isn't.

You've got to get him out of your life so you can get on with living.

teaandcakeplease · 17/02/2010 23:23

I have no idea who Jack is. Not his counsellor no.

It would traumitize the kids if I left them with him and he lost his temper. I know you mean well here but it's not wise. Trust me. He's mentally in a very bad place right now. The GP prescribed him something similar to Prozac last week.

I have been more than assertive, I think it partially caused him to enjoy this girls attention with placing him a pedal stall etc as he was so down trodden on home. I do regret my part in this, but my e-mail was my final warning that he needs to be honest with me.

The other woman lives 4-5 hours drive away, so not doable with 2 young children. That's why he needed to go away for days each week. Not that I'd explained that in my thread.

If he changes his behaviour, I'll give him a shot, for sure. But I'm not canceling my appointment at the solicitors unless something changes drastically. I don't think it will, we separated in October and he is no further forward now.

OP posts:
teaandcakeplease · 17/02/2010 23:24
  • on a pedal stall

Sorry very tired, going to bed in a sec

OP posts:
AnyFucker · 17/02/2010 23:29

oh, good luck, tea

and get some rest, it really sounds like you need it... x