Is it out of order for man to try it on with you when....

[littlestmummystop]

you've explicitly asked him not to.

This has happened to me twice now. I've been on several dates with a guy, he asks or hints to come back to my place saying: 'I'll sleep on the sofa'

When I have let him back I make it clear 'No Sex' but after a kiss and cuddle all of a sudden his exposed knob appears.... and he asks: 'Please please touch it...'

This has happened to my twice now, two different men.

Both times I have refused and gone to bed thinking they've spoilt it. I like to get to know someone really well before I sleep with them and know we're in a relationship etc. I don't want quick hand jobs on my sofa and make that clear before they come back. So why do they do it?

Isn't it disrespectful to still try it on when you've been asked not to?

'if a woman decides to walk wearing a bikini at 3 am on a dark alley that is known to host drug-addicts, pimps and gang members, and she gets raped, it will still be the rapist's fault. But the woman still could have shown a tad more brains by NOT risking herself.'
Has this ever happened? How dare you compare the OP's situation in this way.

Well all men are potential rapists in the same way that all human beings are potential murderers or thieves. We are all physically capable of doing it just the same as men are physically capable of raping. But it's not a very good thing to base a life philosophy on, or judge people by is it?

Sure not, you'd go crazy. Just lock the doors, keep your purse out of view and wear a nun's habit when you walk on a dark alley at 3 am :P

(and keep your sense of humour)

Sadly i have known men like this, and they are the ones at fault, every single time. Maybe the girls who are giving in really did mean No, but caved through pressure or whatever ?. Most of us have had some experience of this either as teens or older women.

The statement of no sometimes meaning maybe is very worrying.
Ive certainly never said no meaning maybe, although as i say, i know girls who have caved after extreme pressure, or because they were getting nasty.

Lets face it, trying to push anyone into doing anything they dont want to do isnt on and is a sign of a bully.

aurynne has said about a million times that rape is always the fault of the rapist.

I heard somewhere that you'll have a hard time getting rid of a man once he's peed in your toilet. Which tells me in a situation like this that if a man asks to pee in your place, he has designs of a territorial nature. And a man who acts helpless, has missed his last train, etc., doesn't have a phone on him and needs to call a taxi has decided not to take responsibility for himself and is telling you this.

kerry you seem like a very strong person. Not everyone is.

dittany, you missed out the fact that they had just been on a date, but then went on to kiss and cuddle on the sofa. 'Prick tease' is overharsh though

After re-reading the whole thread I have found dittany to be the one and only person who has actually written "blame OP" and "women are to blame" and "it is her fault".

I believe the whole "problem" with this thread is a personal obsession of one of its members with the words "blame" and "fault" that no one else seems to share.

Dittany, NO ONE has blamed the OP. No one. Get over it and change your argument.

If you would say "the OP was unlucky" (which I agree with), then wouldn't you help people to deal with the possibility that they might be unlucky too? And if you do that, aren't you essentially warning that any man (not even any man of course, 'any date' would be more accurate) might be inclined to push their luck so bear that in mind? Yet somehow, at the point where caution is being recommended for future dates, that becomes 'blaming the victim'. I don't think that follows.

I think most people do understand that not being cautious does not equate with being the one to blame if something happens, but that that doesn't mean that being cautious can't be worth doing.

Op was naive yes. Getting your knob out in circumstances described by the OP (i.e. no sex) is crossing a line.

Dittany, I have to agree with you and say that the responsibility rests firmly with the man overstepping the boundaries. Obviously, women need to be sensiible about not taking stupid risks, but fgs it should not be a risk to invite a person you have been dating and got to know into your home on the understanding that sex is not on the cards. If he violates that agreement, it is HIS fault, not the OP's.

Which is an entirely different thing to waltzing through gangland in a bikini. That is a totally daft comparison.

dittany, why must you insist on taking things so literally? It really doesn't help your point. It is just because you believe it is 'the standard format' that you are trying to impose your that over what we are actually saying. I have openly said that when I was younger I (very unwisely, and to the detriment of other women, I now realise) used to say No as a way of increasing my unavailability and hence attractiveness. I know that friends of mine were also aware of the paradox that is pushing someone away often makes them want you more - and I don't think we were the only girls in the world to have worked that out. So it isn't a myth.

Kerry I don't agree. Verbalising a desire is one thing. They both sound like wankers and the OP is well rid.

I agree Dittany.
Men who do this arent horny, or " just trying their luck " they are predators who get off on dominating and controlling other people and its partly accepted by society.

I dont like the idea of blame at all in these situations although i can see what some people are saying about setting apropriate boundarys. The problem is that if you have never experienced this you really wouldnt expect it, and really, why SHOULD we have to be on alert for this sort of behaviour? Why should we suspect that the idiot is making excuses re the train to get his nob rubbed?

If weve only ever met normal men who arent abusive twats we simply wouldnt expect it.

I suspect that there wouldve been other warning signs with these idiots that the op didnt pick up on, and thats not her fault.
Am not sure what the answer is but i think we need to teach our daughters about this sort of thing so they feel comfortable setting boundarys, recognising these arseholes ect.

More worryingly, we need to teach our sons too , alarms me that some sons might pick up on the idea that no means maybe and thats ok.