Is it out of order for man to try it on with you when....

[littlestmummystop]

you've explicitly asked him not to.

This has happened to me twice now. I've been on several dates with a guy, he asks or hints to come back to my place saying: 'I'll sleep on the sofa'

When I have let him back I make it clear 'No Sex' but after a kiss and cuddle all of a sudden his exposed knob appears.... and he asks: 'Please please touch it...'

This has happened to my twice now, two different men.

Both times I have refused and gone to bed thinking they've spoilt it. I like to get to know someone really well before I sleep with them and know we're in a relationship etc. I don't want quick hand jobs on my sofa and make that clear before they come back. So why do they do it?

Isn't it disrespectful to still try it on when you've been asked not to?

These men manipulated their way into her home. Sadly this may indicate they have acted like this before.

Alright dittany, fine - let 'a million times' be struck from the record and replaced with 'repeatedly said'. I am defending her because you are claiming she said something which is in fact the opposite of the reality.

Aurynne: Is the OP at fault? No?
If she gets raped?it will still be the rapists fault

You said: Youre reaching to find any way to blame the OP
I am appalled at your victim-blaming attitudes.

You also said: Even better of course would be if aurynne went around telling men that they shouldn't go back to women's houses for coffee or a wee, or that they shouldn't pressure them into sex. Don't think that's going to happen in this century though.

Wrong. Men are very aware of being viewed as potential paedophiles etc simply because they are men. In some universities men are not allowed to shut the door of their offices if they are in there alone with a female student in case they molest them.

I probably wanted the feeling of attractiveness and power by saying no, but I also wouldn't have minded sleeping with them.

don't bring men back to your house. simples.

a lot of men will view an invitation to 'sleep on the sofa' as a come-on. at least IME.

ffs. why is she making out with them on her sofa in the middle of the fucking night? She is sending mixed messages at BEST

How is that a mixed message? He asked to use the loo, she said yes and made it clear there would be no sex. They kissed on the sofa, he then waved his nob at her pleading for it to be touched, and it sounds like one of these idiots then got nasty, and clearly intended to intimidate her into having sex.

Thats not normal really and there are no mixed messages. " I dont want to have sex with you ". Not hard is it.

If i want to kiss a man, i will, and i dont expect for him to assume we will be having sex. That doesnt make me a tease, , and what is with the idea that by kissing a man, or letting him into your house your being a tease?
Can they not control themselves ffs.

Op, not sure what your making of this, its not your fault, in light of these idiots, i would avoid having dates back to your house and i would certainly not allow them to stay.

The OP had two nasty experiences, one of which was downright scary (he got angry), and that was the first of the experiences. Now, you can complain about posters dishing out advice after the fact and trying to blame the victim, but this happened twice, with similar stories used to gain access to her place each time.

The OP was entitled "Is it out of order for man to try it on with you when.... " a staggering question to ask, really so I for one consider a little consciousness-raising very appropriate here, wrt men and their wiles. What happened wasn't 'trying it on' in my book, it went much further. I think she needs to understand the need to protect herself (this is much more serious than the men not being courteous and trying it on) understanding the dynamic that keeps on happening requires understanding her role in it, and seeing how she can avoid this specific kind of situation in the future is part of helping her avoid future injury. She can't change the past but she can learn from it.

dignified -I agree -that behaviour is NOT normal.

"What does paedophilia or doors open in a university (been watching Oreanna have you) have to do with telling women that all men are apparently after one thing so if they allow themselves into their houses it won't matter if they say no, it was their fault for letting them in in the first place?"
paedophilia and open doors = separate things, obviously, as most university students aren't children. Men aren't a homogenous lump, it is possible for many of them to be bothered by something and others not at all.

a) What is Oreanna?

b) No one has said if you allow someone into your house it's your fault if you get raped. Only that there are some twats around so don't assume everyone is honourable. It's called looking out for yourself. Everyone has to take some responsibility for their own safety in life. I am not blaming OP at all, just saying maybe you are being a bit naive (as I once was) and you need to not be scared of seeming rude.

sounds like typical (slightly drunk) male behavour to me!

Plenty of girls will say 'yes, you can come back, but no sex' and end up having sex anyway. Not saying this is right, in any way - just saying that this is what happens

There are loads of men who would not have pressured for sex.

Yes Expat thanks for this....This is probably the least helpful and insightful comment on this thread.

Now, about the posts in whichnmy nickname is mentioned: I can argue my points by myself, thanks very much... I do not need defending or attacking, as this would hijack the OP's thread... which, let us all remember, was not about discussing our own points of view to exhaustion, but about asking for opinions on her particular case. If anyone can't take a different opinion, that's their own problem.

Yes, there are lots of decent men out there. OP needs to learn to weed out the losers and can do this by identifying the stories they use and discerning the purpose behind them. It's not her fault there are losers and predators out there.

It's not her fault if she takes pity on another one and lets him in to use the loo or whatever. If I were her best friend I would be tempted to ask her why she thought things would work out differently the third time after two bad experiences though. Not saying this will happen, but how many times do you do something that works out badly before you start seeing a pattern?

Dittany: "b) saying a victim is responsible for their safety is victim blaming" --> it doesn't matter how many times you repeat this, it won't make it true. It is still nonsense. Asking someone for responsibility for his/her own protecting has nothing to do with blaming.

I truly hope you don't use this poor argument with your own children... I can see the ramifications: "yes, honey, go into a car with a stranger... after all, if he kidnaps you, it will be his fault. That will make us all feel much better when you're murdered by him".

that's a brilliant argument

It's only happened twice Mathanxiety.

I am not some dumb arse who invites all and sundry back to my flat and then cock teases them on my sofa, as some replies have sadly made out.

I am just genuinely that men think it's okay to pull out their knob when I've been really really clear I don't want to take things further.

It's bad luck at worst. This thread though shows me why men like this continue to exist though. Of course they get away with it and won't think it's wrong if even WOMEN seem to think this is just 'what men do.'

Where the hell has self control gone ?

what i said to my sister when she said :
" Is getting rather pissed of with lying bastard cunting arsehole men!!! YOUR A TWAT!!!!"

was:
"you need to develop a bastard filter"

she trule is a wanker magnet

Hi littlestmummystop, it's good to see you back to bring the thread to the point it should be.

I actually agree with you that men SHOULD control themselves, and actually there is a majority that do. But there is a minority that don't, and that's the one we all should be wary of.

Coming back to your original question, "Is it out of order for man to try it on with you when you have explicitly asked him not to?", my answer is a sounding YES. It IS definitely out of order. The rest of the discussion is only a collection of personal opinions about what to do or what not to do about it. Please don't feel any of these opinions (including mine) are personal.

If I were a friend of yours, I would recommend never to invite a date to sleep in the house unless you want sex with him. I would probably invite a total stranger to sleep in the sofa before I would a date, as a date has expectations that a stranger wouldn't have. But as I said, this is just my opinion.

I'm sorry for what you went through. Had I been in your position, I probably would have been much less lady-like than you in my response, and that probably would have brought me a much more violent reaction from the cock-showing asshole.

Aurynne, you are talking shite. If you date somebody repeatedly, that is because you have assessed them as basically ok. If they then whop their cock out against your wishes, you are proved wrong, yes, but they have essentially deceived you and it's not your fault.

The logical conclusion of yours is that you can NEVER let a man you think you know well into your home, because no matter how well you think you know him, he might be a rapist and that's your look out.

How depressing.

Sorry, OP, but I don't think that fooling around on the sofa with someone does make it "really really clear" that you don't want to take things further...