Is it out of order for man to try it on with you when....

[littlestmummystop]

you've explicitly asked him not to.

This has happened to me twice now. I've been on several dates with a guy, he asks or hints to come back to my place saying: 'I'll sleep on the sofa'

When I have let him back I make it clear 'No Sex' but after a kiss and cuddle all of a sudden his exposed knob appears.... and he asks: 'Please please touch it...'

This has happened to my twice now, two different men.

Both times I have refused and gone to bed thinking they've spoilt it. I like to get to know someone really well before I sleep with them and know we're in a relationship etc. I don't want quick hand jobs on my sofa and make that clear before they come back. So why do they do it?

Isn't it disrespectful to still try it on when you've been asked not to?

perhaps you two should agree to disagree....

hahahaha Anyfucker... it's midday here in NZ, my DP is on the other side of the country, it's raining, I'm bored and have nothing better to do, really (I just hope the OP has stopped reading this at least 10 pages ago...)

...and I know people like dittany hate not to have the last word ;P

'...rape has nothing to do with a woman's behaviour but is down to having the bad luck to be in the vicinity of a rapist who has (generally) planned a rape.'

I understand that if you've been the victim of rape you will want to tell yourself over and over that there wasn't anything you could have done to stop it and that it was entirely the males fault. I guess you probably have to feel that way in order to heal from the trauma of it and so that you don't feel like a victim any more.

But for those of us lucky enough not to have been through an experience like rape, we like to think that common sense behavior influences outcomes. And I see no reason to stop advising this.

You seem to be advocating that woman are powerless and we are certainly not.

dittany... I bet you haven't even read any of my posts. Or anyone else's, for what it's worth. Your "rape apologies" are just in your head and have been there all along. No one has justified rape in any post in this thread, and nothing I've said has been sexist or victim-blaming at all. As I said and will keep saying, repeating your lies 50 times won't make them true.

However, you don't piss me off, honey. I am torn between laughing at your incredible naivety or pitying you.

I've read a few of these similiar threads recently.

Your comment strikes me Dittany 'We have a pitiful rape conviction rate'

How practically can this be changed?

fwiw, I do believe that what happened to me could have been avoided if I had had more balls - there was a build-up period over a few weeks (it was at work), and each time he did something I thought that would be the last time and he had got the message. Wrong. I didn't make a fuss because
a) he started out being nice to me after the death of a friend, and it was difficult for me to realise that he had moved from that to trying to manipulate me
b) because he acted really flirty with me in front of other people they all thought we were having an affair anyway, so I wouldn't be believed
c) I thought it would make things even more awkward.

If I had kicked off a massive fuss right at the beginning, quit my job, or at least moved to assisting someone else it probably would not have happened. Now I listen to my instincts and get out if something doesn't feel right.

Yeah it was still his fault but fat lot of good that does me.

kiwi That was a low blow!

Essentially I agree with Dittany on this, the majority of rapes could not have been prevented, and for those that could - well, hindsight is wonderful.

Being careful makes sense, obviously, and is something everyone would rather was a guarantee of safety. Who wants to believe something so horrific could happen to them? But it isn't a guarantee. And that is the problem, I apologise if I'm referencing another thread now but we have shifted from the events of the OP, too many people think the victim could have prevented it. Which although it's a possibility (sure they could be somewhere else) is not the most realistic idea. Like I say, hindsight is wonderful.

I know no one here is saying the attacker is blameless or that the victim is to blame, however, saying that women (or men) can do more to avoid rape is counter productive and can be very harmful. It also undermines, even if that's not the intent, the awfulness of being raped.

No, you're amusing me

Your arguments are very clear... and very clearly wrong. That is the problem, not their lack of clarity. I recommend you to go back to school and learn some more about semantics. Even with English as my second language, I seem to be much better than you at this.

I stopped wanting the last word when I was three. But I still enjoy seen an obtuse person getting annoyed. And popcorn.

Mwah!

Kaloki, the reason people comment about these things openly here is precisely because we are not directly talking to a recent victim of rape. I am sure no one here would go to a poor girl who has just been raped, and say to her face: "See? This wouldn't have happened if you had done this and that!". You also don't go to a child who has nearly drowned and tell him off for swimming where it's deep while he is still gasping for breath... but it surely helps to make sure he is aware of that to avoid a next time.

This is an adult discussion in an online forum where all factors are being analysed. It is a fact that some (sometimes incredible simple) steps can help prevent a situation of danger, rape or otherwise. That is the only thing that has been said here, and the one dittany seems to find objection with (in a very hysteric way).

Rape, and murder, and threats, and hunger... these are all important and serious issues in the world... none of which was the initial subject of this thread. I don't think they are funny. I just think you are, in a sad way.

dittany, that link is dead I'm afraid. Can you do it again?

Maybe I missed it, but I really can't see anywhere on this thread where someone says that victims of rape bring it on themselves.

I wish I had been told to have more guts and not be so naive.

x posts there it is

I fail to see how a bunch of revolting men who decided to shake a rapist's hand is used by dittany as a reasoning that we shouldn't discuss the possibility of taking steps to defend ourselves from being raped. I must be really ignorant indeed.

"Kaloki, the reason people comment about these things openly here is precisely because we are not directly talking to a recent victim of rape. I am sure no one here would go to a poor girl who has just been raped, and say to her face: "See? This wouldn't have happened if you had done this and that!"."

I personally wouldn't say anything like that to someone who had been raped even if it wasn't recent.

What I was saying is that you cannot always say that being careful is enough to prevent rape. Sure say be careful, but it's no guarantee, unfortunately putting the emphasis on the women being careful also increases the likelihood that they will blame themselves and not report the rape. Everyone should be careful, that goes without saying, and isn't crime specific.

However, as was pointed out in the other thread, there isn't the same emphasis on victim responsibility for other crimes as there is for rape.

Eg. how often do you hear assualt (both by strangers and within relationships) being spoken about as avoidable. They are avoidable in exactly the same ways, but judged differently.