in pain, confused and can't see a way forwards.

[YouKnowNothingoftheCrunch]

I've posted about DH more times than a care to remember. But lately things were better. He has been depressed for nearly 3 years. I supported him, got him help and he turned on me.

He spent all of last year (while I was preg with DC3) blaming me for everything and basically making my life a living hell.

I kicked him out, then we worked on things, he changed meds and things got better (slowly).

He's still ill, but much better. He's worked throughout and has put a lot of time into rebuilding his relationship with the DCs.

I think I just want a bit of sympathy really. I don't have anyone to talk to in RL at the moment.

I had a minor op this week. He took me to hospital (no one else to do it and he wasn't keen on missing work but agreed) and was completely distant and cold even though he knew I was terrified. I challenged him on it and he said nothing. On the way home from hospital I told him how upset I was. Nothing.

In the evening I begged him to talk to me, even though I was tired, in pain and still woozy from the general anaesthetic.

Still nothing.

And now he's saying that comfort is a "two way street", that "if I don't ask for help he can't be expected to give it" (bearing in mind I begged him that first evening for him just to talk to me).

I'm on my own with 2DCs, the house is a tip, I'm still too ill to sort it and everything he promised to do is undone. I even had to clean things before I could give the DCs their breakfast.

I don't want to talk to him. I don't know how to get passed this.

If I'm honest I thought that if he could look after me this week it would make up for all the crap he put me through when I was pregnant. It would prove he was different and could be there for me when I needed him.

Sorry for the very self-indulgent post. Just feeling so sad and tired of it all.

When will it end?

i dont think he'll ever change,sorry

but well done for trying. just from previous experience,i doubt it will improve. he's had his chance. is he made of stone?

are you really asking when will it end ?

it will end when you decide you have had enough

only you know that

I don't know your story, but it doesn't sound like your relationship is working nor going to work. Any optimism for recent events improving matters from his side seems misplaced

perhaps now is the time to end it

Things have been better. I saw the man he used to be again.

I don't want to be a mug. I will throw him out if I have to - if I can do it when nearly 8 months pregnant with crippling SPD then I can do it when fit and healthy.

I'm just very tired, and sore. And want a bit of sympathy [shameless emoticon]

I hadn't realised just how much I didn't want to hear that it's over, until you both said it.

oh you poor thing. get through the pregnancy,i wouldnt chuck him out now,not unless he is violent.

look after yourself though,take what you can from him these next few weeks,then take it from there.

think you have enough on your plate,but things can be good for you and the dc...

i left my ex with 4 dc,youngest was a baby. a year in a hostel but happy now. much happier,and i dont think you'll appreciate how much he grinds you down til he's gone

crunchy (may I call you that ?..)

if he cannot help you to sustain this "period of things being better" then you cannot do it all yourself

it sounds like you are in need of something he is unable or unwilling to give

I guess your simple answer is which of those do you think it is ? If he is unable, but you have seen improvements recently, then it is possible there is hope (but he must really, really want to keep on putting the work in)

if he is unwilling, then there is your answer

and I don't mean that he says he is willing and wants it to work...but that his actions demonstrate it

ILOVET, the pregnancy was last year. I kicked him out then because he was so damaging and it was affecting the DCs. Best thing I ever did.

AF, I can put up with crunchy

I learnt last year to look at his actions and not his words. He'd progressed so far that even he would insist I didn't listen to him, just saw what he could do. And he did do it.

So now, when he's suddenly asking me to judge him by words again, and all my warning bells are ringing, I just feel so shattered.

I've been through all this. I know this stage so well. I wrote the bloody book on it. And I WON'T take the crap that I used to take. But that doesn't mean I'm not broken hearted that the one week I needed him he couldn't be there for me.

And the only reason he couldn't be there is because it was the one week I needed him.

I can't go through life coping with every crisis alone but having him there for everything else.

He seems to want a girlfriend when I want a husband.

And I am so angry about that.

sorry,must have misread. have said this once this week already,but,can you see yourself growing old with this man??

you sound pretty switched on to me

but not ready to give up just yet ?

talk to him, get the kids farmed out and make him listen to you

I can see you have tried this already, but does he realise you are feeling right back to square one again ?

and are you 110% sure that you have been properly communicating your needs to him...in a way that he understands (not in a way that requires him to read your mind)

I am not sticking up for him here...just taking a slightly different view

because you need to be sure that you are communcating effectively before you give up completely

good luck x

Ilove, I can, if he's him, but not when he's different. I know that's half an answer, but it's the only one that's right.

AF, not ready to give up. Not yet. Just worn down. He has just sent me an email in reply to one where I laid out exactly how his behaviour now is like it was a year ago. It says, "Oh my God you're right." which is a step up from his earlier one that said I wasn't "Letting him" help me (whatever the hell that means).

Hopefully that breakthrough will mean he'll start listening.

And I can add this week to my long list of "Crap DH has done that I will need to get over at some point"

Thanks for the advice.

are you living with him again?

if so, why didnt he do stuff for dcs before he went to work? was he asked?

is there no one else you could have come in and help you?

you wanted him to prove something and he proved the opposite.

you can carry on - but dont rely on him for support. organize other support,even if you have to pay someone to come and help with dcs (eg after an op).

maybe he isnt "well" enough. i mean, was there a time when he was "well" and would have gone to work late, made sure you and dcs were ok etc?

or is this really just how he is...

i couldnt ever rely on my ex - had to get other people in if i needed to go out etc... since he is now ex i dont expect it any more...makes it easier!

otoh - if your conversation was about "you are distant and cold"
(sort of general and subjective)

and not about the practical "you know, i am going to need help in the morning, because of this op, please could you come and help with the dc breakfast between 0700 and 0800 " and he refused on grounds of work or whatever - then different story - maybe he just is a little impractical and needs things spelling out....

cestla

Yes he lives here.

He "meant to do it before he went to work but was too tired because he slept badly"

He wrote me a long list yesterday of practical things he could do to help (including tidying etc) and said he would prove things through his actions. Then didn't.

My mum was helping until yesterday when she had to go back to work, so last night was the first time he had to do anything all week.

I actually didn't ask him to do anything practical, and was only disappointed that he hadn't because he had made a big fuss about doing it all.

2 weeks ago he would have just got on with it and done things.

What I said to him before the Op was that I was terrified (never been to hospital for anything before) and could he please help me keep my mind off it and comfort me - particularly on the long drive there in the morning. I was pretty specific.

I begged him to talk to me in the car and said that if he was only going to bother when other people were around then he could leave. He ignored me until nurses were about and then made a big show of being nice.

He leaves for work very early so he's never available to feed the DCs then.

I am just so disappointed in him. This was just one day that would have meant the world to me.

So do I decide it's because he's ill or is it that he cannot be there for me?

hmmm let's see -

scnerio a) so he rushed off to work, then called to see how you were and said "oh god i am soo sorry, are you ok, i forgot to clean the dishes, did you manage breakfast with dcs all right, tell you what i will be back early and make dinner tonight so you can rest..."

THAT would have shown he truly forgot and rememebered later and was sorry ... and yes was thinking about the fact you'd been thru an op.

or -scenario b) only when you challenged him - he said " "meant to do it before went to work but was too tired because slept badly""

v easy to "mean to...."

and heck, i doubt you slept v well??

broken promises...what is the point of them?

where do you go from here - i dont know.

he may have just been the wrong person to take to an op - some people just arent cut out for it... but then again he put on a show for nurses....

i guess is not just about what he didnt do but whether he truly recognizes and takes responsibility - i think my ex was always always disppointing me then the excuses..but this but that. then you got a glimmer and thought it was worthwhile.

til i saw the light....ultimately it wasnt worth it (and his controlling behaviour got worse and worse - but some of the control was passive, getting me to do everything) .

but only you can decide where it goes from here.

but - maybe wait til you back on your feet again. in meantime get whatever help you can with dcs.

you cannto really change how he is... saying i wish you were a more supportive person etc - what good would it do? (tho if was scneraio a) above then there is hope...)

It's gone from bad to worse. After his promising email yesterday we sat down to talk last night. He just repeated his general "I'm sorry but you just won't let me help you". I thought he had understood me yesterday.

He was so cold. Even made notes while I talked (maybe a good thing to help him think about it all but bloody hard to have to watch).

I got very sad and tired and told him that this was just another trip around the same block for me. I know things are so much better than they were, but it's still not good enough, and having to periodically revisit this bit everytime he feels low is too much.

So I told him I think it's over. He was very upset and said we could work on it, just to give him another chance. I said "How many chances will it take? You've had so many."

He's gone to work, left a note saying he'd email all day, but nothing.

Sorry if it's a bit garbled I'm on some quite strong pain medication - which is something else that tells me this is not the time to make such decisions.

I'm just so tired of it all.

YOUKNOW (((hugs)))
You know where I am
x

Hey Nifty. Good to see you.

Am a miserable whinger today

Sorry to hear things are not improving, crunchy

He takes notes during your discussions? That is a little strange...why ?

He's never done it before. He'd just been to therapy, I wonder if he was taking something she had said to him about listening carefully too literally.

It was... well impersonal to say the least.

He said he wanted to make sure he responded to everything.

Can I have a "Pull yourself together woman" please?

Hey, Crunch. I'm sorry you're in such a pickle. But - without wishing all this on you! - it looks like quite a constructive thing that you're so down and unwell, because that's what it took for you see you haven't got "a husband" as you so accurately put it. He's not a partner, helpmate or friend and he doesn't care about you or the DCs. All of which he's proved just now, since you're currently unable to cover for him & tell yourself it's okay.

About the depression - I tend to have a very open mind on this, as I'm a depressive and am extremely crap at getting things done. Obviously, that doesn't make anyone a better partner; it's a reason but not much of an excuse. But your hospital visit has demonstrated something very important about you DH's behaviour.
It's this:
"said that if he was only going to bother when other people were around then he could leave. He ignored me until nurses were about and then made a big show of being nice."

Aha. So he can be nice, helpful & caring. He's not too "unwell" to be civil in public. Therefore, he chose not to be nice with you.
He chose it.
That's all you need to know.

I'm terribly sorry, but he's deliberately taking the mick. Put it another way, he's emotionally abusing you.

I think you would get better a lot faster without this extra weight dragging you down. You're not being unreasonable. Make it be over, you're halfway there already.

Grace, everything you've said is true. I promised I wouldn't let him Emotionally abuse me again after last year, and he did choose to do all of this.

Last night, when I said it was over, he said this wasn't what he wanted. I kept saying, "But this is what you chose"

You're right about the fact that he can do it, but isn't

I just want that not to be true.

Dammit, I have fought so hard to make this work. We do have something worthwhile, but he's not pushing for it in the same way.

I can't fix things on my own.

I hope you manage to sort these problems out with your H, and that you achieve some proper communication with him. I do not like your words "I beg him to talk to me". I have begged and begged my H over the years to do this. I realise that my approach in trying to communicate with my H has not always been the right way, but with someone who is indifferent towards you (and basically has no interest in communicating, anyway), you can end up getting desperate with the way they are treating you. I have done alot of 'begging' with my H. 'Begging' him to talk to me, 'begging' him to give me a bit of help/support eg. post-operatively, 'begging' him to just be kind to me, 'begging' him not to leave me (that was in the past a few times - not now). That is the way our marriage has been (but it has not really been a marriage at all, I realise). I have an endless list of all the times my H has never been there for me during tough times when I needed support. In fact, my H has always been quite sadistic and would happily sit back and see me suffer. My H is narcissistic and has been permanently 'emotionally unavailable', cold, uncaring, indifferent etc. I have been permanently 'worn down'.

Sorry to ramble on - hopefully, your H is different to my experiences with my H, and he is a decent human being who will listen and shows by his actions that he is committed.

autumn, at times he can be the old him (and he is nice and caring and thoughtful) but then this thing comes over him and he is all the things you describe. I'm so sorry you've only had the cold H.

This was the first time in a year that I have begged my H for anything. And it was only because we had made such progress together. I honestly never thought for a second that he wouldn't support me before my op. It never crossed my mind that I would not be the focus of his day.

And that's why this has cut so deep. I trusted him. He spent so much time and effort rebuilding that trust, and then just threw it away so casually. I don't understand any of it.

shameless bump

Please? Can someone talk to me?

Hey, just going to read through the thread and I'll be back with you - I wrote a big response to you yesterday but deleted it because it sounded a bit...well, not what you want to hear I think. I'll be back in a bit.

Thanks you WIA. Am sobbing uncontrollably over my keyboard, it's not a good look.

Oh, god, poor you.

Could you please just take a deep breath and read the next bit, Crunch?
You suggested ending the marriage. He improved. You trusted him again. He reverted.

It's deliberate.