in pain, confused and can't see a way forwards.

[YouKnowNothingoftheCrunch]

I've posted about DH more times than a care to remember. But lately things were better. He has been depressed for nearly 3 years. I supported him, got him help and he turned on me.

He spent all of last year (while I was preg with DC3) blaming me for everything and basically making my life a living hell.

I kicked him out, then we worked on things, he changed meds and things got better (slowly).

He's still ill, but much better. He's worked throughout and has put a lot of time into rebuilding his relationship with the DCs.

I think I just want a bit of sympathy really. I don't have anyone to talk to in RL at the moment.

I had a minor op this week. He took me to hospital (no one else to do it and he wasn't keen on missing work but agreed) and was completely distant and cold even though he knew I was terrified. I challenged him on it and he said nothing. On the way home from hospital I told him how upset I was. Nothing.

In the evening I begged him to talk to me, even though I was tired, in pain and still woozy from the general anaesthetic.

Still nothing.

And now he's saying that comfort is a "two way street", that "if I don't ask for help he can't be expected to give it" (bearing in mind I begged him that first evening for him just to talk to me).

I'm on my own with 2DCs, the house is a tip, I'm still too ill to sort it and everything he promised to do is undone. I even had to clean things before I could give the DCs their breakfast.

I don't want to talk to him. I don't know how to get passed this.

If I'm honest I thought that if he could look after me this week it would make up for all the crap he put me through when I was pregnant. It would prove he was different and could be there for me when I needed him.

Sorry for the very self-indulgent post. Just feeling so sad and tired of it all.

When will it end?

But I don't want it to be

I've done everything I could. I deserve to get my DH back.

One more observation: It's not "self-indulgent" to feel down, tired and in need of sympathy when you're knackered/in pain/frightened/lonely!

You absolutely deserve sympathy, Crunch. Not just you, in fact - everybody deserves sympathy when they're distressed. You must have spent so long "being strong" for him, you've completely forgotten it's all right to be needy.

{{{hugs}}} (don't tell mumsnet )

Right.

None of this is your fault. You know that don't you?

Your DH's depression is his illness. You've tried so hard. You've done the very, very best you can.

This bit strikes me:

"So do I decide it's because he's ill or is it that he cannot be there for me?"

It's the same thing. Either he can't do it because of his depression, or he won't do it because he doesn't really want to.

My father struggled with depression for years. He was never, never emotionally abusive to any of us. I don't know if this helps at all?

Are you getting some therapy as well? (Skim read posts quickly)

Wow, you ARE strong, aren't you?!

Thank you for the deep breath! Well, what are your chances of organising family life so he isn't ever actually needed? Can you manage an au pair or a housekeeper? What are the options?

Thanks. This has all happened so fast. A couple of weeks ago we were perhaps the happiest we have ever been. How did we get here so quickly?

I had some therapy last year which really helped me see it wasn't my fault. I should probably go back for a booster.

Options? I can cope without his help as soon as I'm a bit better (which should be a week or so). He knows I don't need him to be here for the practical things (I think he was most put out when he moved out last year and the house got cleaner than ever).

Money-wise we're in a better state than last year so him moving out wouldn't be the same strain as before.

DS1 is going to be devastated. Last year he supported DH moving out, this time he won't have seen it coming (no obvious anger from DH etc).

As WhoIsAsking said, it really isn't your fault. You don't deserve this, it's something that happened TO you. Regrettably. My cat caught a bird this morning! The bird didn't deserve to be caught, it hadn't done anything wrong. The cat wasn't punishing it. The cat's a predator; birds are prey. Some people are like emotional predators.

Would it make you feel better to tell us what you really love about DH?

Wish I'd seen your last before I posted! I feel a LOT better!

DS1 has probably noticed his Mum's very poorly and Daddy isn't helping.

Depression is so fucking weird that way though. One minute people are fine (or seemingly) the next minute they're in the depths.

You're allowed to be shocked at his utter coldness though. The fact that he's been so utterly unsupportive of you is UNACCEPTABLE.

As to your DS? I can only tell you that the anger is on it's way IMHO. He's not managing his illness effectively, and it's probably going to escalate. I'm so sorry - and this is just my opinion - but the greatest indicator of future behaviour tends to be what has gone before.

He's reverting all over the place.

I love everything he is when he's not different.

And that may sound odd, but when he changes he even looks like a different person. He starts to think of himself as a victim and looks for any explanation for why he isn't responsible for what is going on (while at the same time declaring to the world that everything is his fault), usually using me as the scapegoat.

I was too upset to be comforted this week, apparently.

I didn't make myself available to be helped, so what could he do?

But when he's being himself he is caring and kind and funny, he's thoughful and generous and loves to help out around the house and with the DCs. He'd happily let me lie in at the weekend and stay up late talking if I need to. He's my best friend and everything I ever wanted in a man.

And I thought I had him back, but he's gone again

And there's this cold man who wears his face and speaks with his voice. But it isn't him.

I wonder which is the 'real' one, Crunch?
At the end, though, you're left with the cruel, uncaring and lazy one ...

I'm afraid I think it's telling that he became the nice DH again when he thought you were about to get away. It's as though he turns on the niceness just long enough to regain your trust, then sinks the claws back in (I chose the cat story for a reason.) As tragically common as this scenario is, I've never understood why manipulators don't just stick with the nice side. It'd make their lives so much easier!

Look, you might be able to up the ante by constantly being on the verge of leaving. But that would only add stress to an already stressful marriage - and your DCs would probably be scarred for life by living in an emotional maelstrom. All this can't be terribly good for them anyway - and it certainly isn't good for you.

Agree ItsGrace.

I know it sounds awful but feel as though he's using the depression as an excuse to treat YouKnow like shit.

I might be completely wrong about that though.

Me, too. The hospital episode is a classic

I'm off. Take care, Crunch - you do deserve care, you know! xx

Thanks WIA and Grace. I've pulled myself together now. He should be back soon. Not looking forward to it.

You won't know how much you've helped me get through the last hour. I was on the edge, feeling more myself now.

I don't know which is the real one anymore. And I'm not sure it matters, since if they come as a double act I don't want them.

Just need to get through the next bit. I can't live "threatening to leave" that is no life.

Thank you. So much.

Aw, this is awful. You sound so sad. It's bad enough get over an operation even with love and support. You poor wee thing.

One thing that strikes me about how you see your DH is that you see him as 'himself' when he's being loving and kind, and 'not himself' when he's being cold and emotionally abusive.

But both times, it is him. The real him. I know, we all have moments when we act out of character and I'm glad others are forgiving when we do. But this isn't a moment out of character. It is his character, for large chunks of time.

You need a partner you can rely on come hell or high water to put you and your kids first. Not somebody whose moods you have to anticipate and dance around.

If he can 'claen up his act' when faced with tough ultimatums (ultimati??) then that does sound as if he is choosing his actions, rather then being totally at the mercy of an illness.

Wish I could be more optimistic, you sound like a lovely person and you deserve a heck of a lot better then this.

You're more than welcome YouKnow.

I know that you can get through this, after all, you've been here before and coped.

Get better first though, and take good care.

Morris, you made me smile with ultimati. I needed that.

It's funny, whenever he tries to distance himself from things he has done I always remind him that it was him who did those things. Looks like I really need to take my own advice.

I don't know about the lovely person bit, but I if karma exists then I must be due a lottery win about now! Perhaps I should buy a ticket.

Right, I'm going to go and try to make myself look as though I am completely together and haven't been sobbing all day.

Pedantry at all times crunchy, even during crises

You sound a lot better now. Be good to yourself.

phew, I am glad these ladies were around at your low moment crunchy

my one rather terse post was made at work, then it went mental so I didn't come back until now

thank goodness there is always somebody around

I don't know what I would have done without them AF. Thank God for MN and the kindness of strangers.

He's home and sulking. Has barely said two words to me. Mumbled something about it not being over and how he was going to fight for me. And is now upstairs trying to "sort out his thoughts"

I told him to stop behaving like a Farking victim! "DS1 is a victim, DS2 is a victim, DD is a victim, I'm a victim. You're the farking aggressor!"

I am SO tired.

I don't want to cry anymore. Need to hold it together for now. I'm still not sure how this is going to pan out. He's utterly focused on himself now.

I've been here before. So many times. But at least now I can see his selfish crap for what it is.

He had no answer when I put it to him that since he could put on a show for the nurses he could choose to be there for me.

And I've decided it is said ultimatimumato.

oh dear

I don't really get what you mean though re. "I'm not sure how it's going to pan out.."

is the ball in his court now ?

Or are you trying to marshall your strength ? This is terrible bloody timing for you, isn't it ?

I really think though that if you continue to brush the situation under the carpet, you are going to feel worse and worse. What exactly is he going to do to fight for you ? Hide upstairs ? Retreat into himself? Yes, that would be helpful...

< ultimatimumato > reminded me I was supposed to be making bolognese. Send DH round, I'll chop him up & put him in the sauce ...

I know AF, I know. He's on a steady spiral down. We discussed it last week and he said he was getting it together. He didn't.

I just want that magic wand moment. Which is stupid.

It needs a bit of time to sink in. I want him to change my mind, but so far he's just reinforcing the decision (which in many ways is for the best).

I want him not to be ill anymore, not because I am stupid enough to believe that he did all those things because of his depression, but because when he's not depressed he can better guard against his... I don't know... anger I suppose.

But that doesn't mean it's not there. He is so quick to fall back into blaming me, something he knew he was never to do again. And the odd thing is he actually denies that he's doing it, he says he knows it's all his fault. He's completely fallen into his safe old delusion.

Grace - I'm so glad you got the pronounciation right

Sending him round, he may be some time. Walking very very slowly...