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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Is it *ever* right to encourage someone who is in a relationship?

200 replies

glassvase · 30/12/2009 00:58

Exactly that. I am newly single. Man in question currently in 'on' mode of long term on/off relationship. There has been something brewing for a couple of years, since first we met (a bit of a thunderbolt moment), but nothing concrete. I feel it is a bit 'now or never'; would it be morally reprehensible to pursue it? (No dcs)

OP posts:
LeninExcelsis · 31/12/2009 09:51

This reply has been deleted

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morningpaper · 31/12/2009 10:29

No she is still depressed and angry many years later, it has ruined her

Much easier with someone else involved for you to blame TBH

I agree with you though personally, I generally have a shortlist of Next Candidates lined up if not already naked in the wardrobe

BelleDameSansMerci · 31/12/2009 10:41

Morningpaper, you're completely right about compassion and not demonising others.

I'm so crap at relationships that I always forget that for most people it's a desirable and normal state so apologies if I offended anyone with my comments.

LeninExcelsis · 31/12/2009 10:43

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hbfac · 31/12/2009 10:53

Morningpaper - Those were great comments. I couldn't agree more, especially re. compassion and demonising.

Not that I actually manage that in RL!

SolidGoldpiginablanket · 31/12/2009 12:33

TBH the fact that MP's friend remains angry and bitter after this long probably demonstrates fairly well why her H moved on. She was probably needy, self-obsessed and self-pitying when he walked.

purplepeony · 31/12/2009 12:43

OP- if you are still reading, I do hope you will come back and tell us what happens.

I for one, want to know what you meant by "something brewing"- whether that means smouldering glances in each other's direction, flirtatious banter, time spent alone with heavy sighs and longing looks, or just passsing in Tescos and thinking "Coorrrrrrrrr..if only."

If you ditched your ex to open the way for this guy then you must have something tangible to go on, or simply your ex wasn't right for you anyway!

Hope it works out if it what both of you want.

dittany · 31/12/2009 13:08

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purplepeony · 31/12/2009 13:20

well, Dittany, some people do believe that making a public declaration is the only way of showing commitment. Or at least living under the same roof. This couple have done neither.

I'd be interested to know what constitutes being "in a relationship" in your eyes, if it doesn't involve living in the same house, sharing finances, and generally behaving as a couple. "Dating"- especially when it is off/on does not mean the same to me as being in a committed relationship.

In my opinion, unless a couple have legally tied the knot, live together, or have DCs, then they are not technically "committed" in the sense that no-one else should go near them.

SolidGoldpiginablanket · 31/12/2009 13:40

DOn't forget that 'in a relationship' doesn't actually mean 'monogamous' either. Now, many people in happy non-exclusive relationships don't choose to write this information on their foreheads - mainly to avoid having to spend all their time dealing with fuckwitted nosy questions from monogamists - this is another reason why it's OK to make an initial approach to another person you are attracted to. As long as you always take a refusal with good grace and move on.

nighbynight · 31/12/2009 14:03

dittany, the point is that they havent got "IM IN A RELATIONSHIP" written on their foreheads. It is not that easy to find out. If you ask a mutual acquainance, you will be getting that person's opinion about whether they are in a relationship. Which is not the same as knowing the man's real intentions.
(Checking if they've got children is easier, because that's a fact that is clearly visible to everyone outside the relationship)

Stop talking about "fetish" - you are putting words into my mouth that I havent said. What I have said, is that wearing a ring gives other people a clear and unmistakeable sign that you are unavailable.
If you dont wear a ring, than you cant expect other people to read your mind about whether you're available or not.

Of course, you could just wear matching fair isle jerseys, I guess that would get the message across

WhenwillIfeelnormal · 31/12/2009 14:03

Interesting thread. I agree we shouldn't demonise people for feeling tempation, or even acting on it. They are not bad people, but make no mistake, deceiving one's partner is a bad thing to do. It's horrible, selfish, and even abusive behaviour, especially if the "extra" relationship causes the deceiver to treat his or her partner badly all the while it is going on.

It is however because I understand tempation and recognise human fallibility that I do think it is equally bad behaviour to send signals to someone who is attached. Couples go through all sorts of ups and downs, especially in a long relationship. Even if the primary relationship is fine, people go through all sorts of psychological ups and downs.

When a couple are in a "down phase" - or a person is at a low point, tempation is much more difficult to resist. The buzz of someone new, the flattery and the attention etc. can be much more intoxicating at this point. Someone who capitalises on this situation is not being a "friend" to the person at all - offering them an affair is actually more likely to cause the person untold mental anguish, not to mention that caused to a whole load of other people who have no choices (partners and children).

I can think of several men who over the years have come to me as a shoulder to cry on, because they have been having problems in their marriages, or were feeling depressed without knowing why. I'm afraid I've also known that some of these men would have also been very tempted to have an affair - but to do so would have been disastrous for them.

Instead of offering an illicit relationship therefore, I have suggested counselling - or got them to see the situation from their partner's point of view. Got them to evaluate their relationship and talk to their partners about how they were feeling.

It's how I would want someone to behave if my own DH was feeling depressed or even dissatisfied with our relationship.

Everyone has the choice to say "no" and in an ideal world, every attached partner would have the strength of character to realise that an illicit relationship is not the answer to what ever problem they are having, either within themself or in their marriage.

But people have weak points and weak times and it is part of the human condition to feel temptation. So the decent thing (and I believe the way we would all like people to behave towards us) is to recognise that - and not capitalise on it. People who do so are in effect delivering a fatal blow to someone's relationship, when perhaps all that's needed is a bit of tending, or some treatment if one of the parties is depressed.

I agree also that people tend to overlap in their relationships, when actually the more grown-up and sensible thing to do would be to have some time out on their own. I'm also sure that for some people, especially those in abusive relationships, it is only when someone decent offers an alternative that people get the strength to leave, but even for those individuals, jumping into a new relationship might not be the best option.

I'm afraid I've met many more people however who have convinced themselves that the "new" person is much better, leading them to re-write history that the "old" partner was bad for them etc. Some time down the line, after surveying the wreckage of hurt children and a fractured family, they have concluded that the new person wasn't the panacea after all - the new relationship actually isn't any better than the first, the partner left behind was actually better for them and it was all a dreadful mistake.

OP, in your shoes, I wouldn't want to be a rebound love interest. I would prefer to be with a man who ended relationships because the relationship was wrong - and not because a better alternative came along.

Flame · 31/12/2009 14:08

no.

if it is meant to be, then the other person will become single.

Oblomov · 31/12/2009 14:23

boyfriendstealer

This is the woman who deliberately steals boyfriends. It is remarkeable how different people respond to hurt. She was hurt, then she CHOSE to hurt others on purpose. Seems a shame.

WhenwillIfeelnormal · 31/12/2009 15:07

Yes Oblomov, I'm aware of this phenomenon. The OW in my case has behaved like this throughout her life. She has never had female friends and has always been in competition with other women. She tried to have an affair with my H 15 years ago and he turned her down. She has admitted since to him that she hated me from that point. She had never even met me.

Then she met her H and he was unfaithful to her twice - so she reacted by having affairs herself and targetting men in committed relationships, the "happier" the better, in fact. I think part of the reason she hates my DH now is because he succumbed and she despises him for his weakness. Given what she writes on the internet, she still hates me, because in her warped view of life, I "won" the competition.

From a humananitarian point of view, I hope she gets help to stop these destructive behaviours but I would be disingenuous if I said I wished her well. I hope she gets help so that it might stop her wrecking other peoples' lives and families.

Make no mistake though - my H was more culpable and should have had far more loyalty to me than she ever did - and I lost considerable respect for him that he was not able to see through OW's behaviour patterns.

nighbynight · 31/12/2009 15:11

whenwill, your situation sounds horrid. I think it is worth reiterating though, that most people on this thread arent condoning breaking up a marriage with children.

nighbynight · 31/12/2009 15:13

or carrying on a deception.

I once got very tempted by another man when I was in a relationship. I ended it within 24 hours, because I took it as a clear signal, that my current relationship wasnt the right one. If had been married, would have taken a cold shower, I think!

dittany · 31/12/2009 15:31

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

nighbynight · 31/12/2009 15:41

Not true, I have also said that children count. Other people think that mortgages count. These are concrete things, "he's in a relationship" isn't.

Let me give you an example. You are at a party, you see a man you like. Someoen else tells you he's in a relationship, no children, not married.

what facts do you know?

a. that he hasnt made a permanent commitment, and b. that he has no children.

you really dont know anything else. Only the man and the woman he is said to be in a relathionship with know what the real situation is.

poshsinglemum · 31/12/2009 15:41

Tell him how you feel and leave it at that/. If he loves you he will come to you. If not then you can move on.

dittany · 31/12/2009 15:45

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

nighbynight · 31/12/2009 16:00

No, I resist attempts to change the framework of this discussion. We are talking about letting someone know that you like them, not chasing them.

The boyfriend stealer definitely chases, eg putting her phone number in the guy's pocket etc. (Noone with self respect would behave like that, imo). She just wanted to know what people thought about letting her feelings be known.

nighbynight · 31/12/2009 16:01

"the OP" not "she". I cut a sentence out.

MsDoctor · 31/12/2009 17:17

Surely anyone is 'allowed' to tell anyone how they feel and everyone is allowed to say no thanks? Although I would rather not break up a family and so would prefer it that people not enter into relationships with people who have dcs.

cheerfulvicky · 31/12/2009 18:05

People going around expressing an interest in other people is different from people making a play for anothers boyfriend or girlfriend. Surely that is what flirting is for? There are lots of ways of letting someone know that you think they are, well, pretty alright - without endangering their relationship.

The problem I can see on the last page (I haven't read everything on the thread) is that people are offering up their own definitions of what a committed, serious relationship is, when there is no universally accepted definition that all people on the planet agree with. Does it include marriage? Co-habiting? Kids? Eternity rings? None of the above? The fact is, it's possible to have a serious relationship that features nothing from that list, and for it to still be serious. It's also possible to be in an open relationship without broadcasting it in any way. But generally, to avoid stepping on anyone's toes, and in the spirit of common respect and courtesy, one should generally keep ones trap shut about these little fancies, no? Or just stick to idle flirting, the kind that lets them know that IF they were ever single, etc etc... without being enough impetus to make them dash off home and break up with their other half. Or be unfaithful to said other half.

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